General Suggestion- Revert the new update - Denied

[Yato Sensei]

Gonna have to go with a +/- support on this.

I'm glad that there have been taken steps into lowering stuff around the server, that's good.

BUT

The execution of this is just tragic. Half of the jobs don't make any sense with their HP, there currently is no branch that can be classified as tanky or light and the damage values for some weapon makes them pretty much useless, its like you are shooting a water gun at a concrete wall hoping it'd blow up at some point.

[Average Pipebomb enjoyer]

2 hours ago, [GL] Bacon/Buck said:

Massive +support 

While things were getting out of hand with HP, a CI alpha operative should not have 175 / 175 and be able to solo 2 Nu7.
 

It also has rewarded people who bought the golf club heavily making it feel pay to win. I can understand lowering the HP/AP but decreasing damage by 40% is kinda shit. It renders many guns useless and makes this a melee only fight.

another factor that nobody is mentioning is SCP. If 682 was hard enough to get to tranq before think about now. We can barely kill a d class. So how do we kill a giant fucking lizard with 7.5K HP. This also includes scp(s) 098, 2191, 035, 610, 1048, 1265, 966, 5208, 194, 939 and so many others 

even if the HP stays the same, please just fix the gun damage 

 

[Yeppes]

8 hours ago, Zack / Zarl said:

+ Support

The reasoning behind the update was because the Managers believe that health values were getting too large, yet I think it was actually the closest to fair we've had in a while. The way I measured is with a max HP/Armor MTF CC (200 200). Any other measurement was liable to change, however the managers made it clear that the HP of the CCs would not change. For Nu7, the only 3 classes that had more total HP/Armor (EP) than a max CC (excluding 7101), was HSU (SF), Officer (command), and commander.

With the new change---

 - A max (MTF) CC is stronger than every Nu7 class with the exceptions of Commander (50 more EHP) and 7101.

 - They claim to have nerfed all weapon's damage by 40%, but it appears to only have affected TFA Base weapons (which excludes Doom weapons, All legends weapons, Knifes received a small nerf but they're still better than they used to be.

 - They didn't touch SCP Healths, which means they're all a ton harder to kill.

 - With the new change they decided to make Nu7 far weaker than the other MTF branches, as in our SF branch is, instead of how it used to be (same EHP but with different distributions for HP/Armor) They made HSU weaker than the other 2 SFs.

 - Nu7's SF Branch is just about worse than CI's Beta class (HSU is an SF handpicked at SGT+, and Beta is a class given to all senior enlisted, oh and HSU is also a 6 slot job.)

 - The D-Class CCs are now able to solo Command and even SF with their 100/100 state and their golden golf clubs.

And all of these are literally only the changes that affect Nu7, I don't even think that's 5% of the problems that this update has caused. Not to mention all of Nu7 command seems to hate the decision, as well as most everyone I've talked to. The only people that might benefit from this is CI since they were hardly affected by the HP/Armor change. 

+Support

I was all up for the HP/Armor changes, however the way weapon nerf was handled is just tragic, sniper rifles suffered the most from this change, they're now literal bottom of the barrel as a primary weapon unless you score headshosts on every shot.

Shotgun like Nova takes 5-10 point blank center of mass shots with all pellets hitting to kill people and in the middle of combat we know that doesn't happen.

It's been claimed that with higher TTK combat would be more tactical, but the truth is it became less about tactics and more about cheesy movement and skill in a firefight, ambushes and surprise attacks lost almost all of their value.

Some people claim It's to bring more fun, but you cannot have fun with the frustration from the way combat is, low TTK encourages tactics and allows even players who aren't too good in the firefights to secure kills, while higher creates even more frustration by not being able to do the same.

We could really work with these HP/Armor numbers, but the weapon nerf is way too severe and I didn't agree with it in the first place, I'd rather have the whole thing reverted than have it stay this way. The HP gap that existed before wasn't that much of a problem either since weapons dealt more damage, but now It's straight up overpowering to face CI.

 

The HP/Armor reset was for us to grow during branch updates again.. but I wouldn't want for anyone to grow with how weak guns are on the server.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Yeppes

[Sixx]

1 hour ago, Yeppes said:

The HP/Armor reset was for us to grow during branch updates again.. but I wouldn't want for anyone to grow with how weak guns are on the server.

This is a very good point ^, They want us to slowly Re-buff our classes for the future to help encourage activity, we can't really do that with how weak the weapons are. I belive a slight weapon nerf is needed but not by how much they did, they nerfed it by 40%.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Sixx

[Warren Talos]

-support Bruh we didn't even try it for 1 week 

first of all this is very new so its not going to get accepted cause you didn't see all the changes and the upcoming optimization on the server  

Lets just give this one a try for couple of weeks then you should post this

[Grеg]

9 hours ago, Skela said:

-Support
Just give it time. I actually like the new change personally, just get used to it.

 

[Da da da]

+support

A CI raid happened yesterday which thanks to the change was broken, golden golf clubs and HP differences should be be able to destroy all of MTF. This change from a full day of playing caused from what I can tell some of the worst experience for players. I enacted my reserves yesterday just after the change and have never heard so many complaints from all sides, a change like this doesn't need time, its an instant change which has instantly shown its flaws, I personally did not enact my reserves to be beaten to death with golden golf clubs in a CI raid because somehow the weapon is more common then a kitchen knife and does more damage then a fucking bullet. 

 

Snipers are useless, shotguns are now also useless and medium range weapons may as well not exist. 8 shots of a nova at point blank on a not moving target is disgusting, 6 headshots with an AWP is just as bad. Combat shouldn't be so slow and unbalanced. I really feel that this server needs some inspiration from how FPS games succeed.

 

If anything the issue here is that damage was lowered 40% which makes gun fights 40% longer, however HP levels were brought down by about 5% for some classes and for classes like operative / base faction class by about 30%... These changes need to be reverted and a serious change with community feedback, and oversight needs to be made.

 

One of my biggest issues with this change was that it affects literally all players on the server, even SCPs. Yet only high command get the news before it happened? The average player was not informed and a decision was left up to be made by people out of their line of communication.

[Some Weeb]

So here is my take on this after reviewing the arguments I do NOT think nerfing each weapon by 40% was needed. Why? 

 

Because there were some things likely not taken into consideration such as previous weapons already being really bad such as shotguns and snipers. With this update applying to all weapons it caused a sever imbalance in weaponry.

 

The way it should've been executed in my opinion should've been ALOT slower. This was clearly not completely thought through in its entirity. I think in order to address this problem we should ease the 40% debuff to 20% then balance as needed moving forwards

 

+Support for damage changes 

-support for Hp/Ap changes 

 

 

[Nydekore]

Let me just say that I respect what the managers were going for here. I’d also like to give it time to be adjusted and such. But 175 | 175 should not be the health of both a COL in Nu7 and a RCT in CI. I would not hesitate to say that most guns feel awful right now and the health pools don’t feel right at all. We all know that hitreg is a common complaint and while that’s no one’s fault, making people have to hit more bullets per kill is going to make that feel worse inherently because it means waiting longer for the server to realize that “oh wait, you are actually hitting your shots lol”. 
 

While I would not go for full on revert because I understand Igneous/Coltable’s vision with this, I think foundation health pools should be reconsidered and weapon damage should be bumped back up at least 25%.

[Lannie]

While I believe the HP/AP changes were necessary due to stat bloat, a whopping 40% weapon damage nerf is quite the blow. However, I do also believe in giving people time to adjust things is necessary. It hasn’t even been a full week yet. Let the managers have their time. For the time being, I’m going to give this a -support.
 

 

[I disappear]

-support

Bro give it like 2 weeks at the very least for SMT to balance some things out. 

[[GL] Fryingpan36]

+/- Support just revert the weapons keep the HP how it is I like high speed combat. (that's just my opinion at least)

[Toasty]

- Support

While I dislike the new HP/Armor values and lower weapon damage I believe we should give it some time and collect feedback to give SMT so balances could be worked out, just reverting back to how it was or just complaining about the new changes wont help much. Lets see how this plays out and give the feedback overtime to help the server settle down to a balanced state. 

[LucarioKing]

On 10/25/2021 at 8:46 PM, Dondi 2.0 said:

Mass + Support

This whole update seem very un fair from my perspective as an Nu7 main.  Behemoth has become un playable and CC's are even more OP. CI did not get hit nearly as hard we Nu7 so CI raids are a massive pain. Plus I have seen no change in how long combat lasts for.

 

[Tydrix Weeb]

4 hours ago, [GL] Fryingpan36 said:

+/- Support just revert the weapons keep the HP how it is I like high speed combat. (that's just my opinion at least)

I also like faster combat but if anything i say lower the Weapon damage to .75  drop from the .9 we had and the current .5 we are using because the game just feels so slow and most people are now relying on Thirdperson around walls to kill people peaking them and sometimes it gets quite annoying when we cant even push anymore because if you push into a room with more than 1 person your almost guarenteed to die but back when the damage was higher i could push into rooms with 3 people and come out with 5 hp and still continue raiding or defending something and i do miss being able to kill people with a normal weapon like my L85 and AUGA3 

[9Jordan]

+Support

If the creation of D5 eventually became part of the reason to buff CI and nerf the guns, it doesn't make sense to me. The inclusion of D5 does not necessarily mean there will be more MTF than CI on (than before). Just taking a wild guess there though.

My thoughts on a better balance:

Revert everything. THEN:

Adjust CI's health/armour by +10 or at most, +20 (as opposed to the current +50.) CI move in big groups and in my experience I've found that it is an almost equal balance if not biased towards the CI in how many people they encounter while raiding. So, often times they have more firepower against an unsuspecting victim. Where some CI jobs perhaps fell short was on one to one combat where any health/armour discrepancies showed and skill was matched between players.

Lower the damage multiplier by a small amount, if not at all. It is complete personal preference that I am not a fan of slow TTK, I find it is frustrating as someone who has played many fast TTK games that revolve first and foremost around skill (Apex, BF4, DayZ). I do not feel the current damage multiplier is suitable. It makes all guns feel pathetically weak, I'd imagine it makes GENSEC want to die even more when dealing with D Class. And, as a favourite of sniper rifles, it has absolutely ruined them for me. There is no satisfaction in using a sniper rifle without its high risk high reward; particularly on the longbow which I have used over the Barrett sometimes, solely for satisfaction from my own mechanical ability.

 

In conclusion, I think these changes were far too drastic for there to be any measurable variable. You have changed two different variables by a large fraction, I don't think it will be very clear as to what you should alter next. What I do know though, is as a result of changing both the HP/Armour and the weapons at the same time, is that for the time that these changes are live it is far more frustrating for the players than it would have been had you made smaller changes to one aspect at a time. 

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Glass
clarified order of events

[Nydekore]

32 minutes ago, Glass said:

Adjust CI's health/armour by +10 or +20.

This would be a bit much if we are talking revert because they had already received +50 across all jobs due to D5

[9Jordan]

1 hour ago, Nydekore said:

This would be a bit much if we are talking revert because they had already received +50 across all jobs due to D5

I meant in an order of events. Revert everything then adjust their health by that very small amount if needed. Would not be +10, +20 on top of the +50.

[GLaDOS]

-Support

Over the course of SCP-RP there have been many weapons, damage and health nerfs. They've all lead us to this point where combat kept feeling a little dull in a bit of areas, while a great some of us don't like or agree with the nerfs made. I believe change is healthy for the combat meta and the server itself, and thus I believe it should be given more time to adjust to the changes before we outright reject them.

[BOx]

-support
 

Only thing I want change is damage Debuff from 40% to 30% because the damage Debuff was too much Ngl.

[Igneous]

The debuf of weapons was already changed, it was changed from a 40% nerf to a 25% nerf. 

[BOx]

Pog, I Never

3 hours ago, Igneous said:

The debuf of weapons was already changed, it was changed from a 40% nerf to a 25% nerf. 

 

 

[Catalyst]

Change has already been made, but i will leave this opinion

SMT Made the change to create a "more tactical combat feel" but i think we can all agree that "tactical" has many more definitions and opinions especially in regard to game balancing. 

To me personally, "tactical" means always being ready for a fight, being constantly aware of your surroundings and relying on survivability rather than skill such as movement or aim. To some its the complete opposite.

Combat should be unforgiving, but its important to balance this out so that combat feels rewarding while also not punishing players for making minor mistakes. since players take significantly more damage, there is a minimal punishment for poor positioning and overextending. 
 

Successfully pulling off an ambush or setting up proper positioning no longer feels rewarding. While it may make a difference, someone who has better aim and movement could easily still win or turn an encounter even if they were caught off guard or were in a poor position. 

I honestly think the HP changes were needed but the damage nerf has shifted the engaging and rewarding encounters into slow and awkward firefights where people just mag-dump, reload, repeat. 

Positioning over movement, preparedness over aim. That's what tactical means to me.

Since it was already changed i have no opinion until i see the %25 in action. But for now that's where my opinion lies

 

[Kvist]

CI was buffed to the point they could just walk around LCZ, not a care in the world, each member slaughtering droves of GenSec in their wake. We had a chance before that, but were fucked right before the update. Why is it okay for an entire combat branch to be rendered useless during raids?

[Coltable]

On 10/28/2021 at 7:42 PM, Catalyst said:

%25 in action

We originally did 40%, after a week of looking at the state of gun play we decide to reduce it down to 25%. Im quite happy with the 25% but again we will continue to look at the changes and see if we can improve in some way.