Allowing Juggernauts to past the blue line in D Block - Denied

[Nagasaki]

What are you suggesting? -  I am suggesting  that the Security Juggernaut job is allowed to past the blue line in D Block like Riot Control can

How would this change better the server? -  There are a lot of reasons why I want the Security Juggernaut job allowed to past the blue line. The first reason is credibility. In order to get the Security Juggernaut job , you need to be SFC+ in GENSEC, Level 55, you need 2 SECURITY CMD premission to even apply for the application, and you need High Command to approve your application for Juggernaut so I trust that Juggernauts would not abuse this new power. The second reason is it brings more firepower to control D Block riots. Security Juggernauts are equipped with Novas, machine guns, CZ, and a frag grenade so if D Block is in shambles, Security Juggernauts can secure D Block and control the riots. The third reason for this is it gives a person Thermals past the blue line. Security Juggernauts have thermals with them and it is really annoying if a CI Infiltrator goes into D Block and past the blue line because no one can past the blue line with Thermals so giving Juggernauts the access to cross the blue line in D Block can get rid of that problem. The fourth and final reason for  this is making Riot control go back on their normal job. I have seen CPLs always be on the Riot Control job and it is annoying because I can't send them to escort researchers in HCZ if they are on the Riot Control job. If we have Security Juggernauts able to past the blue line, I have a good reason for Juggernauts to take over and the Riot Control can switch to their normal job and escort reserchers for SCP tests.

Are there any disadvantages of making this change to the server? If so, explain. -  One disadvantage of making this change to the server is it would be kinda unfair to D Class because it will make it harder for them to escape the facility but the point of Security is to make them not escape the facility.

Who would this change mostly benefit? -  Security Juggernauts 

[Comrade Boekhom]

-Support

This basically ruins the point of the blue line, if a very powerful class can pass that line what is even the point of it? Its there for D-class benefit to help them in some significant way, and allowing that class past the line negates that benefit entirely 

[Sixx]

+Support

I would love to have Juggs pass the blue line mainly due to CI Infiltrators often times cloaking in the back of D-Block and picking off Security. Juggernauts are one of the few classes in Security who have Thermals and could deal with the CI Infs. Additionally I could also add some restrictions to this by possibly making it so they can only cross the blue line during Defcon 3 or something of the sort. Also not many people play on Jugg due to the high level restrictions and having to be a SFC and hopefully this makes it so more people play on Jugg. 

 

We also wanted this in our last Branch Update however it was never added (Yes I know when suggestion get accepted its just a press of a button for the response) 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Sixx

[Maze The Infamous]

Quote

-Support

This basically ruins the point of the blue line, if a very powerful class can pass that line what is even the point of it? Its there for D-class benefit to help them in some significant way, and allowing that class past the line negates that benefit entirely 

 

[Rito]

-Support

-The point of the blue line is to make it fair for D-Class, allowing jugs to cross it will be way too OP as there is little to no cover in D-Block.

-Killing a CI infiltrator isn't that hard, if you got a lot of people in D-Block they won't be able to do much as they are pretty weak.

-When activating thermals, it activates it for the whole branch so even if most security don't have it, the infiltrator still has to uncloak therefore security can shoot him.

-Security is pretty good at defending D-Block at the moment, I have seen many cooardinated attempts to take back D-Block and most of them were sucessful, also they already got a Class that has 175 hp 125 armor (is it?) which just makes it really good against D-Class and even CI.

There would literally be no point into getting on Class D again unless it is for testing because riots will be just impossible with Juggernauts past the blue line

[PandaInShitpostLand]

-/+support

+Support for allowing them to grab a D-class, deal with CI Infil, and during defcon 2 (during a partial lockdown and when only 1 or less riot control are online)

-support, it's a terrible idea in every other way

[ZJ]

+support, as this was already suppose to be in our branch update, several months ago. JUGG is kinda trash imo, I mean I never use it. Riot is better....

Edited December 11, 2020 by ZJ

[Spud]

+Support

This suggestion was already accepted in October when Igneous accepted the Security Branch Update

[General bacon]

52 minutes ago, Comrade Boekhom said:

-Support

This basically ruins the point of the blue line, if a very powerful class can pass that line what is even the point of it? Its there for D-class benefit to help them in some significant way, and allowing that class past the line negates that benefit entirely 

 

[Sprink]

1 hour ago, Sixx said:

+Support

I would love to have Juggs pass the blue line mainly due to CI Infiltrators often times cloaking in the back of D-Block and picking off Security. Juggernauts are one of the few classes in Security who have Thermals and could deal with the CI Infs. Additionally I could also add some restrictions to this by possibly making it so they can only cross the blue line during Defcon 3 or something of the sort. Also not many people play on Jugg due to the high level restrictions and having to be a SFC and hopefully this makes it so more people play on Jugg. 

 

We also wanted this in our last Branch Update however it was never added (Yes I know when suggestion get accepted its just a press of a button for the response) 

 

[Jameshi34]

30 minutes ago, Spud said:

+Support

This suggestion was already accepted in October when Igneous accepted the Security Branch Update

Precisely. Already should be a thing.

[[GL] Zeus]

1 hour ago, vSquishyv said:

-Support

-The point of the blue line is to make it fair for D-Class, allowing jugs to cross it will be way too OP as there is little to no cover in D-Block.

-Killing a CI infiltrator isn't that hard, if you got a lot of people in D-Block they won't be able to do much as they are pretty weak.

-When activating thermals, it activates it for the whole branch so even if most security don't have it, the infiltrator still has to uncloak therefore security can shoot him.

-Security is pretty good at defending D-Block at the moment, I have seen many cooardinated attempts to take back D-Block and most of them were sucessful, also they already got a Class that has 175 hp 125 armor (is it?) which just makes it really good against D-Class and even CI.

There would literally be no point into getting on Class D again unless it is for testing because riots will be just impossible with Juggernauts past the blue line

 

1 hour ago, Comrade Boekhom said:

-Support

This basically ruins the point of the blue line, if a very powerful class can pass that line what is even the point of it? Its there for D-class benefit to help them in some significant way, and allowing that class past the line negates that benefit entirely 

 

41 minutes ago, Spud said:

+Support

This suggestion was already accepted in October when Igneous accepted the Security Branch Update

If this was accepted, Igneous would have added it, branch updates don't always get accepted as it was formatted, SMT can make changes at their discretion while implementing it which I believe happened here.
-Support Regardless

Edited December 11, 2020 by [GL] Zeus

[Squash]

+/-Support

Now as someone who does play on D-Class frequently I will try and be as unbiased as can be.

1. It does make sense for the Juggernaut to cross the line, it's a beefy class that has weapons that work better if in a closer distance. Also the fact that it basically follows same guidelines as riot control which is cannot leave D-Block unless given perms to is another factor to consider here.

HOWEVER

Juggernaut would be a EXTREMELY hard class to counter with just D-Classes, they could just pop a few shells into us and boom, were dead. With 200 HP & 175 Armor, its basically Heavies, but it spawns with 25% more armor and a shotgun. 

As a compromise maybe make it so they can pass the line if one of these two things, two separate suggestions on my part.

1. Command could issue a protocol of some sort to allow Juggernauts to pass the blue line, however only in the most severe circumstances, like LCZ is completely compromised or something of those sorts.

2. When a partial lockdown is called they may pass the blue line.

 

 

[MexicanGuy]

1 hour ago, vSquishyv said:

-Support

-The point of the blue line is to make it fair for D-Class, allowing jugs to cross it will be way too OP as there is little to no cover in D-Block.

-Killing a CI infiltrator isn't that hard, if you got a lot of people in D-Block they won't be able to do much as they are pretty weak.

-When activating thermals, it activates it for the whole branch so even if most security don't have it, the infiltrator still has to uncloak therefore security can shoot him.

-Security is pretty good at defending D-Block at the moment, I have seen many cooardinated attempts to take back D-Block and most of them were sucessful, also they already got a Class that has 175 hp 125 armor (is it?) which just makes it really good against D-Class and even CI.

There would literally be no point into getting on Class D again unless it is for testing because riots will be just impossible with Juggernauts past the blue line

-You have a jobs for that (riot control) which has if I remember correctly 175 | 100, which is not easy to kill, they also have a job as a sniper which can kill the dclass with two shots, as for the infiltrators, they do not have much life or armor, being very easy to kill when the thermals are activated.

 

[Kodaㅤ]

26 minutes ago, Squash said:

+/-Support

Now as someone who does play on D-Class frequently I will try and be as unbiased as can be.

1. It does make sense for the Juggernaut to cross the line, it's a beefy class that has weapons that work better if in a closer distance. Also the fact that it basically follows same guidelines as riot control which is cannot leave D-Block unless given perms to is another factor to consider here.

HOWEVER

Juggernaut would be a EXTREMELY hard class to counter with just D-Classes, they could just pop a few shells into us and boom, were dead. With 200 HP & 175 Armor, its basically Heavies, but it spawns with 25% more armor and a shotgun. 

As a compromise maybe make it so they can pass the line if one of these two things, two separate suggestions on my part.

1. Command could issue a protocol of some sort to allow Juggernauts to pass the blue line, however only in the most severe circumstances, like LCZ is completely compromised or something of those sorts.

2. When a partial lockdown is called they may pass the blue line.

 

 

 

[Altair]

As a CI infil i have to tell you this its VERY EASY to kill us  gensec need no buff at all they are very strong when you know how to use them and about adding a protocol for them to pass the blue line not a good idea because Command will keep giving them perms for even the most simple stuff GenSec command will remove armory guildlines and everything to kill D-class they have no control over themselfs as soon as a jugg requests to go on they give the yes  they don't follow the exact rules  LET ALONE THAT D-CLASS HAS NO COVER  if they hide behind the elvator all it takes is 1 sniper to DESTROY them if they hide at the corners shotguns /  rifles shred them

Edited December 11, 2020 by Tweety

[[GL] Mike]

If you don't want Jug to pass the blue line then how do you suggest they combat infiltrators? Maybe give riot control thermals? That could be a good option!
 

[Eaten]

10 hours ago, Comrade Boekhom said:

-Support

This basically ruins the point of the blue line, if a very powerful class can pass that line what is even the point of it? Its there for D-class benefit to help them in some significant way, and allowing that class past the line negates that benefit entirely 

 

[Orange 🍊]

+/-

Maybe a better option is to nullify the blue line when CI are holding down in D Block?

This would make more sense and spare Class D.

[DooM Guy]

haha

 

no

[Southpaw]

I can agree on some terms but otherwise I dont see this working

+/- Support

[The Apple]

13 hours ago, vSquishyv said:

-Support

-The point of the blue line is to make it fair for D-Class, allowing jugs to cross it will be way too OP as there is little to no cover in D-Block.

-Killing a CI infiltrator isn't that hard, if you got a lot of people in D-Block they won't be able to do much as they are pretty weak.

-When activating thermals, it activates it for the whole branch so even if most security don't have it, the infiltrator still has to uncloak therefore security can shoot him.

-Security is pretty good at defending D-Block at the moment, I have seen many cooardinated attempts to take back D-Block and most of them were sucessful, also they already got a Class that has 175 hp 125 armor (is it?) which just makes it really good against D-Class and even CI.

There would literally be no point into getting on Class D again unless it is for testing because riots will be just impossible with Juggernauts past the blue line

 

[Chief_]

+/- Support

+Will help with taking down CI Infils/Ci Snipers that go behind teh blue line

Reasoning to +supports

Security have many difficulties in D-block. I would be able to see/be ok with it if it was limited to being on defcon 3. Or if there was a CI personnel back there. The main reason why we have a problem with CI going back there is that they usually grab a sniper. Then have a shield. They run over there with the shield out ot take minimal damage then go behind the elevator and begin to heal. Then of course the D-class begin to help heal him then he 1-2 shots us with his Barret. 

I would be ok with this being denied if it was made so that CI couldn't pass the blue line as it make it unfair for the gensec if multiple get back behind there with med kits.

-Makes it unfair for d-class during riots

 

Compromises to this

Make it so CI can't go pass the blue line

Define combat healing a bit more like:

You must be out of combat for 10 seconds before able to heal/situation is over.

Or also add that you cannot go behind the elevator/pillars and heal up. Cause its annoying because they say they are out of combat because they go behind a fence which in IRL we would be able to shoot through but can't because its a solid world prop.

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Chief_

[Right Twix Bar]

- Support for Juggs being able to pass the line whenever (due to reasons above)

+ Support to allow Juggs to pass the line during partial or during defcon 3/2/1
I see it like this, if it's partial, either the D-Class get annihilated on the elevator or Security can't hold, with or without Juggs past the blue line. So Juggs going pass the blue line wouldn't affect anything too much.
If it's defcon 3, CI could possibly have control of D-Block, so Juggs can more easily deal with the CI.
If it's defcon 2/1, the site is probably fucked and this won't make a difference.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Right Twix Bar

[Surge]

+Support for juggs to go through during a D3 an Infil are spotted since they have thermals or if CI is camping dblock elavator 

-Support for them just to walk around willy nilly