Balance These Knives Already - Denied

[APE]

3 hours ago, Skela said:

Also keep in mind, this isn’t how you try to do a counter argument, also with the fact that “Git Gud “ isn’t considered toxic. Literally Catsro **quoted** it on the blue line suggestion. 

Don't think that makes much sense. That isn't me countering an argument, because "Get Good" Is not an argument to counter.  It is me asking for him to preferably provide valuable discussion material. Unless you would prefer the phrase "Get Good" over actual debate and conversation? I stated it was being subtly toxic, and it is lmao. What else is that phrase supposed to do? It isn't meant to garner discussion and it isn't a compliment. I mean sure, I get it. If you would rather have needless and goofy slander over a good and well spoken discussion then yeah, I understand you now.  Now I think we should end it at this and if you wish to have pointless debates on how to properly argue and what toxicity is we can talk over it in private, but for now I would like to only see + and - Supports here please. Thank you for your input Skela.

Edited October 4, 2020 by APE

[Surge]

+Support , Knives shouldnt be running the server  espevially ruinning gensecs day because class D like to riot for hours especislly during low pop an harrass them for ages ,Backstabbing shouldnt be nearley insta killing everyine because someone can crouch spam an jump breaking ttheir hitbox an win cause of it

[ShadowKnivesYou]

9 hours ago, girlboy said:

-SUPPORT

The knives' backstabs are strong because they are supposed to be a reward for achieving a flank. Currently, knives (because they primarily are a weapon for D-Class) are fighting against the strongest GENSEC has ever been with Wardens, Riot Control, and incredibly high activity due to a new server and good high command (seriously you guys have a page and a half almost everyday for a couple hours, it's honestly impressive). As a player who essentially only plays D-Class, I can tell you when attempting to use knives, you will NEVER achieve four consecutive backstabs on any foundation combatant, especially not any CC that knows how to play the game. 

Sure on paper it seems that knives are crazy with 440 dmg in 5 seconds, but I'm sure you just had the CC turn your back to you,  and you just right clicked. Think about context, when using a knife, you are always trying to rush and close distance... which makes you a priority. As soon as you're spotted, your combatant will backpedal and face you to get their shots in, making backstabs almost impossible. If players are lucky you get one good sneak attack and/or the combatant turns around to run. And for the players with knives, they end up knifing back, usually (as a D-Class CC) against someone with higher hp/armor and or more foundation on their side. To make knives even worse, the server has been in a meta where shotguns have been *dominating* for a WHILE, so closing in against the majority of players who strafe jump and shotgun with high latency and sometimes awkward hitreg? Not happening.

For the most part, I believe the server has been the most balanced since Site 05, and this is coming from a D-Class CC who faces shotguns and snipers and HSU and O9 Experimental Forces and those crazy CCs (Captain Mei, Omnipurpose, Psi-8, Invictus, ETC) and... you get my point. If anything, I feel that other weapons, specifically melee, are underpowered. Just look at the trench knife. I think why the knife gets so much attention is because honestly it's the only usable one. Every other melee weapon has bad hitreg against an already strong meta on a pretty laggy server. Fixing other melee weapons hitreg would introduce variety and open our eyes to the incredibly low standard melee weapons actually have. If knives are nerfed, melees will become obsolete, and it's just another weapon to be stumped by the meta we play in.

TL;DR knives are fine, consecutive backstabs never happen, and melees in general are actually very bad. don't let knives take the fall because of bad melees

 

[Propane]

-/+ support

Meh, in a 1v1 yeah it makes sense but keep in mind you can sprint and stab but cant run and gun. Add a few more people stabbing you in the mix and it's kinda over, at the same time you just need good strats against em. A slight nerf for a few damage points would be okay IMO 

[Mint]

15 hours ago, [GL] loudyfam (Jack S) said:

+Support

knives hurt me

 

[pixalgamer99]

1 hour ago, Propane said:

-/+ support

Meh, in a 1v1 yeah it makes sense but keep in mind you can sprint and stab but cant run and gun. Add a few more people stabbing you in the mix and it's kinda over, at the same time you just need good strats against em. A slight nerf for a few damage points would be okay IMO 

Well I mean that’s pretty much the same with any melee weapon if a couple people rush you your most likely dead

[Propane]

34 minutes ago, pixalgamer99 said:

Well I mean that’s pretty much the same with any melee weapon if a couple people rush you your most likely dead

Knife windup is different from what I know

[Gunther]

20 hours ago, APE said:

What I think would be helpful right now is some common reasoning  and logic. The knife is 10 Dollars, yet every weapon more expensive than it is worse in close combat. People who own the Scythe and Golfclub still use the knife because it is simply superior in every way.  Not because of raw damage output, but because of the crazy range and speed of the knife. It is not a stretch to say that the CSGO knife has one of the best reaches and hit accuracy on the entire server. I cannot think of one other melee that was nerfed and then rebuffed to such an extent that it is still used over firearms and other donator melee weapons.  How often do you see people running around with the fubar, X-mas hammer, and Scythe anymore? and you hardly see bats because they are just too trash. 

This man has a 1000 IQ and Big PP. This man speaks the truth.

19 hours ago, Squash said:

I do overall agree that they are pretty damn OP. However what Comrade said is kinda true, lets put aside the "Get Good" part for instance, If you cannot kill a D Class that is running in a straight line at you, then its more of your aim.

I don't think they ever consider the fact D-Class never rush alone, or at the very least, in a straight line.  1v1 easy. 5v1, not easy at all.

17 hours ago, girlboy said:

-SUPPORT

The knives' backstabs are strong because they are supposed to be a reward for achieving a flank. Currently, knives (because they primarily are a weapon for D-Class) are fighting against the strongest GENSEC has ever been with Wardens, Riot Control, and incredibly high activity due to a new server and good high command (seriously you guys have a page and a half almost everyday for a couple hours, it's honestly impressive). As a player who essentially only plays D-Class, I can tell you when attempting to use knives, you will NEVER achieve four consecutive backstabs on any foundation combatant, especially not any CC that knows how to play the game. 

Sure on paper it seems that knives are crazy with 440 dmg in 5 seconds, but I'm sure you just had the CC turn your back to you, and you just right clicked. Think about context, when using a knife, you are always trying to rush and close distance... which makes you a priority. As soon as you're spotted, your combatant will backpedal and face you to get their shots in, making backstabs almost impossible. If players are lucky you get one good sneak attack and/or the combatant turns around to run. And for the players with knives, they end up knifing back, usually (as a D-Class CC) against someone with higher hp/armor and or more foundation on their side. To make knives even worse, the server has been in a meta where shotguns have been *dominating* for a WHILE, so closing in against the majority of players who strafe jump and shotgun with high latency and sometimes awkward hitreg? Not happening.

For the most part, I believe the server has been the most balanced since Site 05, and this is coming from a D-Class CC who faces shotguns and snipers and HSU and O9 Experimental Forces and those crazy CCs (Captain Mei, Omnipurpose, Psi-8, Invictus, ETC) and... you get my point. If anything, I feel that other weapons, specifically melee, are underpowered. Just look at the trench knife. I think why the knife gets so much attention is because honestly it's the only usable one. Every other melee weapon has bad hitreg against an already strong meta on a pretty laggy server. Fixing other melee weapons hitreg would introduce variety and open our eyes to the incredibly low standard melee weapons actually have. If knives are nerfed, melees will become obsolete, and it's just another weapon to be stumped by the meta we play in.

TL;DR knives are fine, consecutive backstabs never happen, and melees in general are actually very bad. don't let knives take the fall because of bad melees

I'm completely neutral on this. The only thing I agree on is the fact that these weapons are the best out of all melee weapons, and cost only $10. For those of us who have paid much more only to have a shite weapon is frustrating. 

[Forehead man [GL]]

18 hours ago, girlboy said:

-SUPPORT

The knives' backstabs are strong because they are supposed to be a reward for achieving a flank. Currently, knives (because they primarily are a weapon for D-Class) are fighting against the strongest GENSEC has ever been with Wardens, Riot Control, and incredibly high activity due to a new server and good high command (seriously you guys have a page and a half almost everyday for a couple hours, it's honestly impressive). As a player who essentially only plays D-Class, I can tell you when attempting to use knives, you will NEVER achieve four consecutive backstabs on any foundation combatant, especially not any CC that knows how to play the game. 

Sure on paper it seems that knives are crazy with 440 dmg in 5 seconds, but I'm sure you just had the CC turn your back to you, and you just right clicked. Think about context, when using a knife, you are always trying to rush and close distance... which makes you a priority. As soon as you're spotted, your combatant will backpedal and face you to get their shots in, making backstabs almost impossible. If players are lucky you get one good sneak attack and/or the combatant turns around to run. And for the players with knives, they end up knifing back, usually (as a D-Class CC) against someone with higher hp/armor and or more foundation on their side. To make knives even worse, the server has been in a meta where shotguns have been *dominating* for a WHILE, so closing in against the majority of players who strafe jump and shotgun with high latency and sometimes awkward hitreg? Not happening.

For the most part, I believe the server has been the most balanced since Site 05, and this is coming from a D-Class CC who faces shotguns and snipers and HSU and O9 Experimental Forces and those crazy CCs (Captain Mei, Omnipurpose, Psi-8, Invictus, ETC) and... you get my point. If anything, I feel that other weapons, specifically melee, are underpowered. Just look at the trench knife. I think why the knife gets so much attention is because honestly it's the only usable one. Every other melee weapon has bad hitreg against an already strong meta on a pretty laggy server. Fixing other melee weapons hitreg would introduce variety and open our eyes to the incredibly low standard melee weapons actually have. If knives are nerfed, melees will become obsolete, and it's just another weapon to be stumped by the meta we play in.

TL;DR knives are fine, consecutive backstabs never happen, and melees in general are actually very bad. don't let knives take the fall because of bad melees

-support  I know d block is falling very often and yall are looking at the knives but nobody is ever going to get 4 backstabs, any half decent combatant would only take 1/2 front stabs before killing the person in question. The other thing is that some of yall bring up that you die within seconds if you are swarmed by them, but that is true for literally any weapon in the game, you die faster if there is more people. 

[OWNED]

18 hours ago, girlboy said:

-SUPPORT

The knives' backstabs are strong because they are supposed to be a reward for achieving a flank. Currently, knives (because they primarily are a weapon for D-Class) are fighting against the strongest GENSEC has ever been with Wardens, Riot Control, and incredibly high activity due to a new server and good high command (seriously you guys have a page and a half almost everyday for a couple hours, it's honestly impressive). As a player who essentially only plays D-Class, I can tell you when attempting to use knives, you will NEVER achieve four consecutive backstabs on any foundation combatant, especially not any CC that knows how to play the game. 

Sure on paper it seems that knives are crazy with 440 dmg in 5 seconds, but I'm sure you just had the CC turn your back to you, and you just right clicked. Think about context, when using a knife, you are always trying to rush and close distance... which makes you a priority. As soon as you're spotted, your combatant will backpedal and face you to get their shots in, making backstabs almost impossible. If players are lucky you get one good sneak attack and/or the combatant turns around to run. And for the players with knives, they end up knifing back, usually (as a D-Class CC) against someone with higher hp/armor and or more foundation on their side. To make knives even worse, the server has been in a meta where shotguns have been *dominating* for a WHILE, so closing in against the majority of players who strafe jump and shotgun with high latency and sometimes awkward hitreg? Not happening.

For the most part, I believe the server has been the most balanced since Site 05, and this is coming from a D-Class CC who faces shotguns and snipers and HSU and O9 Experimental Forces and those crazy CCs (Captain Mei, Omnipurpose, Psi-8, Invictus, ETC) and... you get my point. If anything, I feel that other weapons, specifically melee, are underpowered. Just look at the trench knife. I think why the knife gets so much attention is because honestly it's the only usable one. Every other melee weapon has bad hitreg against an already strong meta on a pretty laggy server. Fixing other melee weapons hitreg would introduce variety and open our eyes to the incredibly low standard melee weapons actually have. If knives are nerfed, melees will become obsolete, and it's just another weapon to be stumped by the meta we play in.

TL;DR knives are fine, consecutive backstabs never happen, and melees in general are actually very bad. don't let knives take the fall because of bad melees

 

[Blarg]

HEAVY -SUPPORT

The knives have been nerfed to hell... I actually feel ripped off because i bought a knife and they so broken now you have to pretty much achieve a backstab to actually do anything, Also if you miss a swing your a goner with how slow it is to swing. Even though i have left SCPRP (possibly forever) It still has a special place in my heart.

 

 

[Southpaw]

5 hours ago, Blarg said:

HEAVY -SUPPORT

The knives have been nerfed to hell... I actually feel ripped off because i bought a knife and they so broken now you have to pretty much achieve a backstab to actually do anything, Also if you miss a swing your a goner with how slow it is to swing. Even though i have left SCPRP (possibly forever) It still has a special place in my heart.

 

 

 

[Trout]

-Support

knives have already been nerfed, the point of them is to be a weapon for D class can use to over power security and MTF. Not to be a shitty item no one uses.

[Altair]

On 10/4/2020 at 8:18 PM, Sixx said:

For a 10$ Wepon to be more OP then 100$ weapons on the store is a problem, especially considering how alot of D-Class have them.

its all foundation that are + supporting this XD     also -supports are from d class but i can understand why  as they have nothing

Edited October 7, 2020 by Tweety

[[GL] Inaccurate]

+/- Support

[DooM Guy]

DooM Guys Guide On:
How To Counter a Knife Attack

 

Step 1: 'Observe'
You must first observe the surrounding area that you and thou opponent are in, a wide space or long space is crucial. 

 

Step 2: 'Create Distance'
Creating distance is highly important, you must run then attack.

 

Step 3: 'Get good'
You're just bad at the game.

 

[[GL] Jack I the One & Only]

-support

Don't let them get behind you

[Jack II]

On 10/6/2020 at 12:48 PM, Tweety said:

its all foundation that are + supporting this XD     also -supports are from d class but i can understand why  as they have nothing

- support, knives are stupidly op. We give D class the falcon. No NLR, an easier way to get to the lines, and CCs have their NLR lowered to 1 minute.  He really isn't mainly talking about damage. Its about range and accuray. It is insanely easy to kill someone with them.

PS: I find it hilarious people are still saying "Just don't let them hit your back"

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Jack II

[Comrade Boekhom]

23 hours ago, DooM Guy said:

DooM Guys Guide On:
How To Counter a Knife Attack

 

Step 1: 'Observe'
You must first observe the surrounding area that you and thou opponent are in, a wide space or long space is crucial. 

 

Step 2: 'Create Distance'
Creating distance is highly important, you must run then attack.

 

Step 3: 'Get good'
You're just bad at the game.

 

 

[APE]

On 10/6/2020 at 11:30 PM, DooM Guy said:

DooM Guys Guide On:
How To Counter a Knife Attack

 

Step 1: 'Observe'
You must first observe the surrounding area that you and thou opponent are in, a wide space or long space is crucial. 

 

Step 2: 'Create Distance'
Creating distance is highly important, you must run then attack.

 

Step 3: 'Get good'
You're just bad at the game.

 

Doom guy, out of all the times I have dance around you in pvp, you have no room to say get good. LMAO Im playing but fr,  You are better than my officers, I want them to have a chance.  I don't need help, they do.

[DooM Guy]

40 minutes ago, APE said:

Doom guy, out of all the times I have dance around you in pvp, you have no room to say get good. LMAO Im playing but fr,  You are better than my officers, I want them to have a chance.  I don't need help, they do.

The reason your OFC’s die all the time is because they just stand still when getting rushed. Not my fault that don’t know how to crouch jump lol

[J0LT]

+support

Even as a dclass. Im tired of knife pussies. It's supposed to be your back up "life saving" weapon. Not kill a mob of dclass from one door way

[TG_Kilo]

On 10/4/2020 at 10:01 AM, Skela said:

Personally it’ll have to be a -Support for me.

The knife are already bad whenever it comes to pvping, since the registration isn’t always hitting.

The knife is also very easy to combat against. Walk backwards, shoot and keep calm, it isn’t difficult.

Also the slash from the back. That’s the rewarding damage if you manage to let someone get behind you.

Also keep in mind, this isn’t how you try to do a counter argument, also with the fact that “Git Gud “ isn’t considered toxic. Literally Catsro **quoted** it on the blue line suggestion. 

Tbh, the knifes have slow attacks to begin with giving the shooter an advantage. The only nerf I’ll accept is a mobility nerf due to it being really easy to weave with it. 

[a frog]

On 10/4/2020 at 1:59 AM, Comrade Boekhom said:

personally I say -support

For reasons of they have already been heavily nerfed since they were introduced, if you cant kill a dclass who's rushing you with it (since its mostly them who ues it)

 

then

 

git gud

 

if you cant shoot a person running at you with a knife is it really the knives fault if you die

[Dang]

 

On 10/4/2020 at 10:48 AM, girlboy said:

-SUPPORT

The knives' backstabs are strong because they are supposed to be a reward for achieving a flank. Currently, knives (because they primarily are a weapon for D-Class) are fighting against the strongest GENSEC has ever been with Wardens, Riot Control, and incredibly high activity due to a new server and good high command (seriously you guys have a page and a half almost everyday for a couple hours, it's honestly impressive). As a player who essentially only plays D-Class, I can tell you when attempting to use knives, you will NEVER achieve four consecutive backstabs on any foundation combatant, especially not any CC that knows how to play the game. 

Sure on paper it seems that knives are crazy with 440 dmg in 5 seconds, but I'm sure you just had the CC turn your back to you, and you just right clicked. Think about context, when using a knife, you are always trying to rush and close distance... which makes you a priority. As soon as you're spotted, your combatant will backpedal and face you to get their shots in, making backstabs almost impossible. If players are lucky you get one good sneak attack and/or the combatant turns around to run. And for the players with knives, they end up knifing back, usually (as a D-Class CC) against someone with higher hp/armor and or more foundation on their side. To make knives even worse, the server has been in a meta where shotguns have been *dominating* for a WHILE, so closing in against the majority of players who strafe jump and shotgun with high latency and sometimes awkward hitreg? Not happening.

For the most part, I believe the server has been the most balanced since Site 05, and this is coming from a D-Class CC who faces shotguns and snipers and HSU and O9 Experimental Forces and those crazy CCs (Captain Mei, Omnipurpose, Psi-8, Invictus, ETC) and... you get my point. If anything, I feel that other weapons, specifically melee, are underpowered. Just look at the trench knife. I think why the knife gets so much attention is because honestly it's the only usable one. Every other melee weapon has bad hitreg against an already strong meta on a pretty laggy server. Fixing other melee weapons hitreg would introduce variety and open our eyes to the incredibly low standard melee weapons actually have. If knives are nerfed, melees will become obsolete, and it's just another weapon to be stumped by the meta we play in.

TL;DR knives are fine, consecutive backstabs never happen, and melees in general are actually very bad. don't let knives take the fall because of bad melees

-support

Edited October 12, 2020 by Dang