Nerf Knives PLEASE - Accepted

[SomeManNamedDan]

 

What you want to see? -  The Knives, specifically those available in the donation store should be nerfed in the sense of fixing the effective range.

Why should we add it? -  I am aware that many people are opposed to this. I understand why. I understand that people spent actual money out of their own pockets in order to get these weapons. That is why I agree they should be somewhat powerful. I also agree that it is one of the weapons D-Class have in their arsenal that make escape and riots somewhat of a fair fight. I am not asking for much except for you to hear out my proposal that I have constructed with actual evidence and experience aside from mine and other's personal opinion. As it stand right now. The Karambit knife; One of the many CSGO knives added to the donation store recently; has the ability to take away 125 HP and 125 Armor in 4 hits. To the front mind you. From the back, the number of hits required to do this amount of damage is about half. For comparison. The UMP which is held by LCP and OFC which make up a large portion of GENSEC will do a body shot resulting in loss of 4HP and 18 Armor and a head shot of about 4 HP and 18 armor. Due to the rules of scientific reasoning I will also inform you of variables in the test conducted above. The person who was tested on was a security Heavy. The body shot was first and the head shot was second. The distance between us was the same as the distance of a effect knife hit shown in the video attached. To do some math. It takes about 4.2 hits with a knife from the front to kill a Riot Control as a Class-D and for a Enlisted to kill a D-Class at the same range with the same health and armor (150 HP and 125 Armor) it takes the GENSEC with a UMP 6.9 shots to take the D-Class down to 0 Armor and 72.2 HP and then an additional 2 shots to kill them. Rounding up, in total if there was a fair fight between a Riot Control with a UMP and a Class-D with a CSGO Knife, it will only take the Class-D 5 hits pretty much anywhere on the front of the body to kill the Riot Control and the Riot control will have to accurately hit the D-Class 9 times in the upper chest or head for them to die first. Now that may seem to be valid, however with the knife there is no recoil or spray control, you point, you click, you hit. In the video below you will see a tactic employed by many D-Class with knives in which they jump around you while you are forced to fire, walk backwards, and keep steady in order to hit those 9 shots or for a normal d-class, 4 shots. Next to impossible because of the low accuracy of the GENSEC Weapons. 

Secondly the range. In the video, at the moment of the 2nd to last hit (I think) the D-Class was in the wide open. This provided me the opportunity to count. The distance between myself and the D-Class was 7 floor tiles. Assuming GMOD uses math, that means the effect hit of the knife is anyone who is at a minimum distance of 7 tiles away. For perspective. The distance between each holding cell in D-Block is 5 tiles. Meaning if a D-Class were to stand in front of one holding cell, they can hit a person standing in front of the next holding cell over and still produce a hit that reduces you health by close to 20% which is ridiculous to say the least. 

Finally the fire rate. As mentioned before, the knives have no additional variables other then the fire rate (cool down between each swing) and the damage. For the "Left-click" It does less damage but has a cool down of .5 seconds. The "right-click" does more damage but has a cool down of 1 second. The UMP has a fire rate of 666 RPM or about 11 RPS. Seems more then fair, however with human error taken into account, we can make the broad estimate that out of a 26 round mag, a OFC or LCPL will deliver accurate fire into the head or upper chest about 25% of the time. Meaning 6.5 shots will be accurate out of their entire magazin. It takes about 2.3 seconds for a Gensec to successfully unload an entire magazine which will maybe accurately hit a jumping D-Class 6 times. With that in mind, we can also infer a reload time of about 2.5 seconds. After the first 6 shots, the GENSEC are required to hit another 3 shots. Meaning about half of their mag will be dispensed if we use the same 25% accuracy principal. This will take about 1.15 seconds. Meaning it will take GENSEC around 6.95 or about 7 seconds to kill a D-Class who has the ability to kill us in the same range of 7 tiles in 5 seconds if they use the maximum amount of damage possible for a front body hit from 7 tiles away. Keep in mind, this doesn't include the variable of the knives doing more damage to the back. 

To conclude. It is mathematically proven above that under a control environment, outside of assistance by other D-Class or Security, and ignoring the damage differentiation between a stab to the back and to the front, that even if a GENSEC with a UMP and 150 health and 125 Armor and is able to effectively hit a target in the upper chest or head whilst the target moves in completely random directions 1/4 of the time while the same GENSEC is walking backward and attempting to control spray, the D-Class will still have the ability to kill him in less time. My own review of my little experiment shows me to one conclusion. Under normal conditions, some of these facts will be multiplied or divided depending on the scenario. However based on a control scenario with perfect conditions for both parties, the D-Class will be victor the majority of the time. This to me is a problem. GENSEC are supposed to be able to kill more effectively then D-Class. At a normal hour, the D-Class to Gensec ratio tends to vary on about 2:1. If 1 GENSEC is already at a disadvantage against a single D-Class, how can we expect them to be effective against 2. My solution is not one that is over correcting in nature. We should simply shorten the range of the knives OR slightly reduce their accuracy OR slightly reduce their damage. I understand the want to have an even playing field between D-Class and GENSEC but at the current moment, it is in D-Class's favor. I am asking to level the playing field. This may also be an explanation to the reason why in the past week there have been a substantially greater amount of times where D-Class have gained control of D-Block. I have no evidence for this so it is just a theory. If you've read this far and still has dissertations or questions, I will be happy to answer any questions and remove or amend any evidence used in this post to reflect any miscalculations I may have made. 

What are the advantages of having this? - A better playing field meaning GENSEC may not be so hesitant to flag up to do their job which spans outside of just D-Block. Also takes away a little of the Pay to Win aspect to the server. 

Who is it mainly for? - Gensec and D-Class

Links to any content -  Video Attached.

 

Ignore my high gain. (Mute the video is recommended as sound inst required)

 

 

[Bionicle]

Bruh

[Skela]

Your aim.

 

[Silver3504]

4 paragraphs 

All i have to say is 

Bruh

[Gunther]

24 minutes ago, Silver3504 said:

4 paragraphs 

All i have to say is 

Bruh

I'm not even gonna bother reading it cause there's already a suggestion out for this.
I read it.
Also, that range tho. And those were all from the front, and that still did 50 damage per hit from like 7 feet away.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Gunther

[Neo]

*Misses every shotgun shot against a knife*
Nerf knife please!

[SomeManNamedDan]

3 minutes ago, Neo said:

*Misses every shotgun shot against a knife*
Nerf knife please!

Yes my aim sucks. However I didnt use any of the information from the sitiation provided except for the distance of 7 tiles. Argument still stands.

Edited April 28, 2020 by SomeManNamedDan

[Dang]

- Support 

- There is already a suggestion about the knife being nerfed.

- Its almost like every gensec is making a knife nerf suggestion.

 

 

[Propane]

13 minutes ago, BlueToxicTank said:

- Support 

- There is already a suggestion about the knife being nerfed.

- Its almost like every gensec is making a knife nerf suggestion.

 

 

 

[Gunther]

13 minutes ago, BlueToxicTank said:

- Support 

- There is already a suggestion about the knife being nerfed.

- Its almost like every gensec is making a knife nerf suggestion.

 

 

I mean that's because D-Class are the majority, if not all, of the people using it, and its used against Gensec. 

[Gunther]

1 minute ago, BlueToxicTank said:

Well that's not true every branch uses the knives. Also can you please stop replying to every forum post I make, and let me have my opinion. 

Don't flatter yourself, I respond to everyone's post when they quote me.

[Ritz]

34 minutes ago, Neo said:

*Misses every shotgun shot against a knife*
Nerf knife please!

^
-Support

Edited April 28, 2020 by Ritz

[BadAim]

Please leave comments on this post for the sole purpose of +Supporting and -Supporting, anything else should be taken to DMs.

-GL Support team

[Jack II]

I made a suggestion about it already. Gotta give da credit for that big ass essay

 

 

+ support

[[GL] Zeus]

5 hours ago, Neo said:

*Misses every shotgun shot against a knife*
Nerf knife please!

It’s not that hard to hold a hallway and left click or jump and move backwards and hold left click 

[Zone]

-Support 

Bruh

[Comrade Boekhom]

5 hours ago, Neo said:

*Misses every shotgun shot against a knife*
Nerf knife please!

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ANGER

[Retired DoTF Daedran]

+Support
Being as how MTF is also having issues in regards to the involved weaponry in question, I can support nerfing these weapons to a more reasonable degree, perhaps arms reach is more reasonable and realistic.

[Your Local Soviet]

-Support

There is already a suggestion for this and my opinion still stands. GenSec can easily out number D-Class with firearms, firearms still have an advantage due to range and fire-rate,  and by the looks of the video your aim is to be blamed, not the knife.

[Jack II]

ah yes, KNIVES ARE FINE EVERYBODY LOVES THEM!

 

gensec: 2 activity pings a day.

 

D class is boring theres no challenge with these knives

 

”Were not good at pvp so we need to put these op knives in the game to help us!”

[Propane]

+support

You can move and stab a knife

You cant move and fire a gun

[Disgraced Merchant]

+Support 

I'm tired of getting hit by a knife with the reaching distance of a fuckin' spear and the swing radius of a goddamn gymnasium. THEY NEVER MISS BECAUSE THEY CANT. JUST CLOSE YOUR EYES AND SWING WHAT THE HELLLLLLL IS THAT

[Chief_]

+support

KNIVES CAN DO 50 DAMAGE PER HIT. I got instantly killed  on my CC.

[BadTimeInbound]

+Support. 

[Igneous]

I nerfed the secondary by 5 dmg and the backstab now does 80.