Allowing Juggernauts to past the blue line in D Block - Denied

[J0LT]

-support

riot control are enough

and having them pass during partial is just chaotic, you already have people camping the elevator and swarming the side, you dont need more

[Jack S]

1 hour ago, Surge said:

+Support for juggs to go through during a D3 an Infil are spotted since they have thermals or if CI is camping dblock elavator 

 

[Mind Stone]

+/-Support

OK so I think a compromise needs to be made here. I do think juggs should pass the blue line. However it will be HIGHLY restricted. I propose that one of the following guidelines be put into effect if this is accepted:

• Can only pass blue line during partial or if GenSec HCMD permit it.
• Can only pass on DEFCON 3 or lower (no perms).
• SCMD+ (or HCMD+ if SCMD is too low) can grant perms on DEFCON 3.

As I said earlier, I want this to be accepted. Feel free to @ me here if you have any questions or possible ideas.

[Maze The Infamous]

 

Quote

+/-Support

OK so I think a compromise needs to be made here. I do think juggs should pass the blue line. However it will be HIGHLY restricted. I propose that one of the following guidelines be put into effect if this is accepted:

Can only pass blue line during partial or if GenSec HCMD permit it.

Can only pass on DEFCON 3 or lower (no perms).

SCMD+ (or HCMD+ if SCMD is too low) can grant perms on DEFCON 3.

As I said earlier, I want this to be accepted. Feel free to @ me here if you have any questions or possible ideas.

Hmm Mind I Can Agree With You On That But How About Defcon 2 Without Perms 3 with DHOS+ Perms? @Mind Stone

My Saying For This Is Defcon 2 Isnt As Common And You Still gotta Keep it fair for Dclass because Defcon 3 can be abused

Edited December 11, 2020 by [GL] A Youtube SponsorShip

[Mind Stone]

Yeah that could work. 

[Maze The Infamous]

Or To make it more fair you could do it only if the threat is sufficient enough in lcz

[Frog]

16 hours ago, vSquishyv said:

-Support

-The point of the blue line is to make it fair for D-Class, allowing jugs to cross it will be way too OP as there is little to no cover in D-Block.

-Killing a CI infiltrator isn't that hard, if you got a lot of people in D-Block they won't be able to do much as they are pretty weak.

-When activating thermals, it activates it for the whole branch so even if most security don't have it, the infiltrator still has to uncloak therefore security can shoot him.

-Security is pretty good at defending D-Block at the moment, I have seen many cooardinated attempts to take back D-Block and most of them were sucessful, also they already got a Class that has 175 hp 125 armor (is it?) which just makes it really good against D-Class and even CI.

There would literally be no point into getting on Class D again unless it is for testing because riots will be just impossible with Juggernauts past the blue line

 

[Dr. Succ]

2 hours ago, Mind Stone said:

+/-Support

OK so I think a compromise needs to be made here. I do think juggs should pass the blue line. However it will be HIGHLY restricted. I propose that one of the following guidelines be put into effect if this is accepted:

• Can only pass blue line during partial or if GenSec HCMD permit it.
• Can only pass on DEFCON 3 or lower (no perms).
• SCMD+ (or HCMD+ if SCMD is too low) can grant perms on DEFCON 3.

As I said earlier, I want this to be accepted. Feel free to @ me here if you have any questions or possible ideas.

Yeah I like this, not make it to where they can just pass whenever they want but under certain conditions.

 

Its also funny how all the people not in gensec think this is a terrible idea, but they have never been in gensec and have no clue what they are talking about xD.  you dont know the struggle man

2 hours ago, frog milk said:

 

If they ARE cought with thermals they just hid behind the elevator or in the corner until the thermals timer runs out. so all they have to do is wait 5 mins and they can cloak again with no problem.

2 hours ago, frog milk said:

When activating thermals, it activates it for the whole branch so even if most security don't have it, the infiltrator still has to uncloak therefore security can shoot him.

 

[Rangiatea]

18 hours ago, Spud said:

+Support

This suggestion was already accepted in October when Igneous accepted the Security Branch Update

No it wasn't, this is why you don't put rule update requests in a branch update.

[MattOminigo3]

19 hours ago, vSquishyv said:

-Support

-The point of the blue line is to make it fair for D-Class, allowing jugs to cross it will be way too OP as there is little to no cover in D-Block.

-Killing a CI infiltrator isn't that hard, if you got a lot of people in D-Block they won't be able to do much as they are pretty weak.

-When activating thermals, it activates it for the whole branch so even if most security don't have it, the infiltrator still has to uncloak therefore security can shoot him.

-Security is pretty good at defending D-Block at the moment, I have seen many cooardinated attempts to take back D-Block and most of them were sucessful, also they already got a Class that has 175 hp 125 armor (is it?) which just makes it really good against D-Class and even CI.

There would literally be no point into getting on Class D again unless it is for testing because riots will be just impossible with Juggernauts past the blue line

#BuffDclass

 

[APE]

19 hours ago, Sixx said:

+Support

I would love to have Juggs pass the blue line mainly due to CI Infiltrators often times cloaking in the back of D-Block and picking off Security. Juggernauts are one of the few classes in Security who have Thermals and could deal with the CI Infs. Additionally I could also add some restrictions to this by possibly making it so they can only cross the blue line during Defcon 3 or something of the sort. Also not many people play on Jugg due to the high level restrictions and having to be a SFC and hopefully this makes it so more people play on Jugg. 

 

We also wanted this in our last Branch Update however it was never added (Yes I know when suggestion get accepted its just a press of a button for the response) 

 

[a frog]

-support cause fuck anyone who wants to have fun on d class right

[Spud]

F I got denied by rang :pepesad:

[Altair]

Atleast if you want to buff gensec like crazy then buff d-class too ;-; we got 0 covers all they nee is 1 sniper to kill everyone behind elevator or corners also got riot controls to deal with em anyway

[Camden]

-support because it makes more sense that just riot control can cross the line as it says in the name there job is to deal with riots and riots dont always get to where the barricades are.

[Rotten]

-support

This would basically ruin the threat of d class in d block if this was to be a thing, jugg has high hp and decent guns while a VIP D class have around 100 100 and same with the D class CC's with very little reliability with there equipment, this would make flagging up to d class to attempt and start a riot and or cause a stir with security nearly impossible if both riot control and juggernaut happend to be flagged on as if they are competent enough they can stop an entire rioting party.

this would also ruin the purpose of attempting to help d class escape as ci infil as you will almost instantly get outgunned by 1-2 juggernauts 

[Your Local Soviet]

Huge -Support

No, just no. I already don't like the idea of Riot Control being able to pass the blue line unless its a hands up procedure. Implementing this will only make it even more difficult for D-Class to riot and have any kind of fun without having security up their asses 24/7. Its difficult enough for D-Class to riot due to the map change, so how do you expect D-Class to take on giant mech suits and dudes with shotguns that can basically murk any D-Class in 1-2 shots?

[OWNED]

On 12/10/2020 at 8:44 PM, Comrade Boekhom said:

-Support

This basically ruins the point of the blue line, if a very powerful class can pass that line what is even the point of it? Its there for D-class benefit to help them in some significant way, and allowing that class past the line negates that benefit entirely 

we already have a bunch of riot control running around past the blue line, even when there is no reason to

we dont need another class like this to add to the chaos

[oshi]

-Support 

While i think its a good idea it would only ruin the D-Classes Experience and there would be no point in flagging on.

[Eem]

+/-Support

The idea sounds good on its own, but the thing is:

-Having too many people behind the  blue line will surely cause a lot of cross-fire, sure , it will help cover the d block more,  but since we have a riot control, it sould stay as the only class that is allowed to cross it, 

-Having another class that can cross the blue line could cause Riot Control to not flag on that often, because juggs would be more successful and they would take their jobs.

 

-It would be op against D class

 

+We will get the d block more secure, the D class would have a lot of trouble fighting off both Riot C and Juggs. 

 

+Would make Juggs use their m60s and cz-75s more often since the nova is the best for long range, m60 can be used for short range as well as cz-75.

 

Edited December 13, 2020 by Eem

[Phillers]

-Support, this'd skew the balance into SEC's favour quite severely.

[Star]

-Support
Juggernauts by themselves are rather difficult to take down, especially with other GenSec protecting them.
Permitting them to cross the blue line, alongside Riot Control, would be far too difficult for those on Class-D.

[BadAim]

-support

[Train Overlord]

Honestly, I always see the power difference between Gensec and D-Class to be quite thin and easy to unbalance. On first glances Gensec seems to be the main power with their numbers and guns with little chance to combat them however, I see that Gensec relies on consistently to keep their foothold on D-block while D-Class rely on their unpredictable nature and revolving circumstances to break them. I say the balance is thin because despite Gensec being more naturally equipped than D-Class its highly common for D-Class to manage to break past Gensec and get out of D-block by taking advantages of their strengths or benefiting from the mistakes of gensec. But getting help from the friendly CI and SCP's every now and then helps.  And that is why gensec and D-Class are balanced. They can easily influence and demolish the other by taking advantage of their strengths and each other weaknesses. Gensec is by default stronger because of their nature but that doesn't mean D-Class can't fight back. Which is why whenever there is a new change to either Gensec or D-Class its a make or break on this balance. A buff to Gensec could rob D-Class of their strengths and ruin their chance to fight back while a buff to D-Class can naturally do the same. A example of this would be the barrier additions in the new map benefiting D-Class and the proposed suggestion to nerf Riot control, its like a consistent war. 

Anyway, with that rambling being said what we have works. The only peeps traveling past that line is Riot Controls which may be powerful can be countered and this is something that needs to stay. Adding Juggernauts is in my opinion going to completely turn this balance into gensec's favour as I do not see a proper counter to Juggernauts. The counter to riot control is numbers and their natural isolation from the rest of gensec which serves to control D-Class but also give them opportunities. Juggernauts do not have this. Juggernauts will remove the counter abilities of Riot Control and will rob D-Class of their opportunities. Yes, its not supposed to be easy to break out of D-Block but its not supposed to be near impossible. 

So, to preserve the balance we have established Im -Supporting this. 

Edited December 20, 2020 by Train Overlord

[NeoID]

On 12/10/2020 at 8:44 PM, Comrade Boekhom said:

-Support

This basically ruins the point of the blue line, if a very powerful class can pass that line what is even the point of it? Its there for D-class benefit to help them in some significant way, and allowing that class past the line negates that benefit entirely 

- Support

God. Fuck. No. With that much HP? D-Class wouldn't stand a chance. Breaking balance is one thing, this would shatter it. Sorry man.  Got to be considerate to all branches involved.