Balance These Knives Already - Denied

[APE]

 

What are you suggesting? - 

 

We nerf the CSGO Knife damage, at the very least the Backstabbing damage needs a severe nerf. As you will see. If it will not be an overall nerf. I suggest we severely nerf the backstab damage of these weapons, lowering it enough so that it will take 8 hits to kill a 200 200 CC rather than 4.

 

How would this change better the server? - 

 

Fix an old issue that only came about because people thought it was nerfed too harshly.

 

Are there any disadvantages of making this change to the server? If so, explain. - 

 

Aside from people being mad that they cannot main a knife instead of a firearm anymore? No.

 

Who would this change mostly benefit? - 

 

Everyone who has to deal with the most commonly used melee weapon on the server and its broken backstab.

 

Please link any workshop content, screenshots, or anything that you think may be helpful to those who view this suggestion -

 

What I think would be helpful right now is some common reasoning  and logic. The knife is 10 Dollars, yet every weapon more expensive than it is worse in close combat. People who own the Scythe and Golfclub still use the knife because it is simply superior in every way.  Not because of raw damage output, but because of the crazy range and speed of the knife. It is not a stretch to say that the CSGO knife has one of the best reaches and hit accuracy on the entire server. I cannot think of one other melee that was nerfed and then rebuffed to such an extent that it is still used over firearms and other donator melee weapons.  How often do you see people running around with the fubar, X-mas hammer, and Scythe anymore? and you hardly see bats because they are just too trash. 

 

FOR THE FOLLOWING TEST WE USED A CC CALLED "OMNI PURPOSE SECURITY FORCE" A 200 HP AND 200 AP CC WITH AN AVERAGE HITBOX.

 

LEFT CLICK SLASH (FAST SLASH-WEAKER DAMAGE) HITS PER 5 SECONDS (5-6)

RIGHT CLICK SLASH (SLOW SLASH-HIGHER DAMAGE) HITS PER 5 SECONDS (4)

 

^^Already It is among the fastest melee weapons in the server^^

ATTACKING FROM THE FRONT 

Left Click Slash- 400 Damage in 11 hits

Right Click Slash- 455 Damage in 7 hits.

^(Reasonable damage right? 8-10seconds to kill. Balance is pretty good for Front slashes. I can live with it ^-^.)^

 

Oh boy, here we go....

 

ATTACKING FROM THE BACK 

Right Click Slash- 440 Damage in 4 Hits

Left Click Slash- 455 Damage in 7 Hits

 

(4 Hits to do 440 damage. In a mere 5 seconds you can kill a 200 200 CC with a good hitbox.  But lets be real, how often are you at full health when in a fight? Almost never, so you will die even faster from these knives most likely. People utilize knives in chaos against multiple opponents, 9/10 times you will NOT be at full HP and AP.  You will die so fast if you have a lack of it. Good luck to Security enlisted and Nu7 Recruits right?? This is a 200 200 CC, most classes do NOT have that. So unless you are in Omni-9, have fun buying your CC so that you die in 5 Seconds instead of 2.)

 

-"People, I know you love your knives. I loved my Christmas Hammer, but we have to use our brains and push past our own selfishness and desire of having a busted weapon for personal use, and do what is best for the server. I Guarantee CSGO knife sales are much much much higher than those of the dive knife, trench knife, bat, hatchet, claw hammer, etc. Don't + or - Support based on your personal bias, base it on reason."-

 

[Jack S]

+Support

knives hurt me

[Sprink]

1 minute ago, [GL] loudyfam (Jack S) said:

+Support

knives hurt me

 

[Comrade Boekhom]

personally I say -support

For reasons of they have already been heavily nerfed since they were introduced, if you cant kill a dclass who's rushing you with it (since its mostly them who ues it)

 

then

 

git gud

Edited October 4, 2020 by Comrade Boekhom

[APE]

8 minutes ago, Comrade Boekhom said:

personally I say -support

For reasons of they have already been heavily nerfed since they were introduced, if you cant kill a dclass who's rushing you with it (since its mostly them who ues it)

 

then

 

git gud

If your only reason as to why they shouldn't be nerfed is one I have already addressed followed by "Get Good" I would recommend you try using your noggin a bit more lol nhf. You may think its funny and sure it is but I would appreciate it if you set your subtle toxicity aside when on the forums and act mature. Best of wishes.

Edited October 4, 2020 by APE

[Plain Myth]

+Support

The knives do need a balance change for the immense knockback they deal and how much damage they can output for that melee weapon compared to the others.

[Jameshi34]

+ support

good reasoning

[Crystal]

+Support, I like Stabbing

[Meridian]

+support the man crunched the numbers, they're incredibly good to the point where dclass often use them over most ranged weapons, excluding armory weapons of course.

[Squash]

+Support

I do overall agree that they are pretty damn OP. However what Comrade said is kinda true, lets put aside the "Get Good" part for instance, If you cannot kill a D Class that is running in a straight line at you, then its more of your aim.

Still though most D Class attempt to dodge bullets in erratic movement, so again +support personally dont use knives much, but as a non combatant most of the time, knives just completely demolish me. I don't even get a chance to pull out my gun to defend myself most of the time.

[Comrade Boekhom]

46 minutes ago, APE said:

If your only reason as to why they shouldn't be nerfed is one I have already addressed followed by "Get Good" I would recommend you try using your noggin a bit more lol nhf. You may think its funny and sure it is but I would appreciate it if you set your subtle toxicity aside when on the forums and act mature. Best of wishes.

theres no toxicity meant by it, personally for me at least, as long as you play right you can deal with the knives

[Sixx]

37 minutes ago, Squash said:

+Support

I do overall agree that they are pretty damn OP. However what Comrade said is kinda true, lets put aside the "Get Good" part for instance, If you cannot kill a D Class that is running in a straight line at you, then its more of your aim.

Still though most D Class attempt to dodge bullets in erratic movement, so again +support personally dont use knives much, but as a non combatant most of the time, knives just completely demolish me. I don't even get a chance to pull out my gun to defend myself most of the time.

These knives are so good for the price they cost, deal high damage, and have good hit reg for 10$. They need a nerf.

[girlboy]

-SUPPORT

The knives' backstabs are strong because they are supposed to be a reward for achieving a flank. Currently, knives (because they primarily are a weapon for D-Class) are fighting against the strongest GENSEC has ever been with Wardens, Riot Control, and incredibly high activity due to a new server and good high command (seriously you guys have a page and a half almost everyday for a couple hours, it's honestly impressive). As a player who essentially only plays D-Class, I can tell you when attempting to use knives, you will NEVER achieve four consecutive backstabs on any foundation combatant, especially not any CC that knows how to play the game. 

Sure on paper it seems that knives are crazy with 440 dmg in 5 seconds, but I'm sure you just had the CC turn your back to you, and you just right clicked. Think about context, when using a knife, you are always trying to rush and close distance... which makes you a priority. As soon as you're spotted, your combatant will backpedal and face you to get their shots in, making backstabs almost impossible. If players are lucky you get one good sneak attack and/or the combatant turns around to run. And for the players with knives, they end up knifing back, usually (as a D-Class CC) against someone with higher hp/armor and or more foundation on their side. To make knives even worse, the server has been in a meta where shotguns have been *dominating* for a WHILE, so closing in against the majority of players who strafe jump and shotgun with high latency and sometimes awkward hitreg? Not happening.

For the most part, I believe the server has been the most balanced since Site 05, and this is coming from a D-Class CC who faces shotguns and snipers and HSU and O9 Experimental Forces and those crazy CCs (Captain Mei, Omnipurpose, Psi-8, Invictus, ETC) and... you get my point. If anything, I feel that other weapons, specifically melee, are underpowered. Just look at the trench knife. I think why the knife gets so much attention is because honestly it's the only usable one. Every other melee weapon has bad hitreg against an already strong meta on a pretty laggy server. Fixing other melee weapons hitreg would introduce variety and open our eyes to the incredibly low standard melee weapons actually have. If knives are nerfed, melees will become obsolete, and it's just another weapon to be stumped by the meta we play in.

TL;DR knives are fine, consecutive backstabs never happen, and melees in general are actually very bad. don't let knives take the fall because of bad melees

Edited October 4, 2020 by girlboy

[Skela]

Personally it’ll have to be a -Support for me.

The knife are already bad whenever it comes to pvping, since the registration isn’t always hitting.

The knife is also very easy to combat against. Walk backwards, shoot and keep calm, it isn’t difficult.

Also the slash from the back. That’s the rewarding damage if you manage to let someone get behind you.

7 hours ago, APE said:

You may think its funny and sure it is but I would appreciate it if you set your subtle toxicity aside when on the forums and act mature. Best of wishes.

Also keep in mind, this isn’t how you try to do a counter argument, also with the fact that “Git Gud “ isn’t considered toxic. Literally Catsro **quoted** it on the blue line suggestion. 

Edited October 4, 2020 by Skela
Double checked💀

[samall56]

7 hours ago, Comrade Boekhom said:

personally I say -support

For reasons of they have already been heavily nerfed since they were introduced, if you cant kill a dclass who's rushing you with it (since its mostly them who ues it)

 

-support

 

[Comrade Boekhom]

4 hours ago, girlboy said:

-SUPPORT

The knives' backstabs are strong because they are supposed to be a reward for achieving a flank. Currently, knives (because they primarily are a weapon for D-Class) are fighting against the strongest GENSEC has ever been with Wardens, Riot Control, and incredibly high activity due to a new server and good high command (seriously you guys have a page and a half almost everyday for a couple hours, it's honestly impressive). As a player who essentially only plays D-Class, I can tell you when attempting to use knives, you will NEVER achieve four consecutive backstabs on any foundation combatant, especially not any CC that knows how to play the game. 

Sure on paper it seems that knives are crazy with 440 dmg in 5 seconds, but I'm sure you just had the CC turn your back to you,  and you just right clicked. Think about context, when using a knife, you are always trying to rush and close distance... which makes you a priority. As soon as you're spotted, your combatant will backpedal and face you to get their shots in, making backstabs almost impossible. If players are lucky you get one good sneak attack and/or the combatant turns around to run. And for the players with knives, they end up knifing back, usually (as a D-Class CC) against someone with higher hp/armor and or more foundation on their side. To make knives even worse, the server has been in a meta where shotguns have been *dominating* for a WHILE, so closing in against the majority of players who strafe jump and shotgun with high latency and sometimes awkward hitreg? Not happening.

For the most part, I believe the server has been the most balanced since Site 05, and this is coming from a D-Class CC who faces shotguns and snipers and HSU and O9 Experimental Forces and those crazy CCs (Captain Mei, Omnipurpose, Psi-8, Invictus, ETC) and... you get my point. If anything, I feel that other weapons, specifically melee, are underpowered. Just look at the trench knife. I think why the knife gets so much attention is because honestly it's the only usable one. Every other melee weapon has bad hitreg against an already strong meta on a pretty laggy server. Fixing other melee weapons hitreg would introduce variety and open our eyes to the incredibly low standard melee weapons actually have. If knives are nerfed, melees will become obsolete, and it's just another weapon to be stumped by the meta we play in.

TL;DR knives are fine, consecutive backstabs never happen, and melees in general are actually very bad. don't let knives take the fall because of bad melees

Im very happy you quoted my cc (Captain Mei) as a crazy cc, thank you

[Altair]

-Support  you can kill them before they even get close and if they do you can still take them down if you have a decent aim m or good fps right now the only good weapon D-Class has is the cs:go knife its not overpowered as people say its just that it has a good hit register unlike all other melee weapons the sledge deals 3x more damage then a melee weapon in its charged move but people say its very bad and might get a buff but in my opinion its just the hit register not the damage that what makes people feel like these things are op idk man i mean lets be fair boys you got snipers you got juggernauts/heavies/riot controls/high armor/high hp

its just a donor weapon not everyone has it only few days like out of 15 d class 3 has it

bascially a good way to stop a riot let alone the MTF which are even more good that comes to assist and also E11 when requested idk tbh this is just what i think 

i agree with the foundation that its annoying to them  but what i think is that you guys have alot of ways to stop it prob ok no really its annoying xD

Edited October 4, 2020 by Tweety

[BadAim]

-support

git gud 

[Altair]

8 minutes ago, BadAim said:

-support

git gud 

no

[pixalgamer99]

-support while I understand that it seems overpowered I have been in many fights with and without a knife I have done it against guns and I have done it against knifes and other melee even on the medical command job when nothing is happening the BAT actually does a lot of damage it can 1 shot the medical command job and 2 shot me on ACM sometimes 3 shot. I have done knife fights against shotguns and SMGs most of the time the SMG wins when it has enough time (3seconds) too figure me out then I’m basically dead (the time it takes a D class too rush the middle walkway is 4 seconds too get too the first gensec barrier, you can all shoot a D class by that time also about your back stab issue is you only will land 1 backstab 2 if you get a lucky side stab and the logical move when someone is melee rushing you is too back up and start shooting. That is why I’m -supporting this

also it doesn’t seem like much non gensec are saying this is an issue and gensec have an easy way too deal with it if they keep rioting that way call hands up and if that doesn’t solve any thing call a partial I feel like you guys forget you have that power 

Edited October 4, 2020 by pixalgamer99

[Dect]

8 hours ago, Squash said:

+Support

I do overall agree that they are pretty damn OP. However what Comrade said is kinda true, lets put aside the "Get Good" part for instance, If you cannot kill a D Class that is running in a straight line at you, then its more of your aim.

Still though most D Class attempt to dodge bullets in erratic movement, so again +support personally dont use knives much, but as a non combatant most of the time, knives just completely demolish me. I don't even get a chance to pull out my gun to defend myself most of the time.

 

[Tania]

10 hours ago, APE said:

I Guarantee CSGO knife sales are much much much higher than those of the dive knife, trench knife, bat, hatchet, claw hammer, etc.

-Support

There is a reason why the sales would be way higher than other donator weapons.

Many people see the CS:GO knifes as the only useable melee weapon in the current meta. It stands great at close combat which it is what its meant to do. 
 
Now comparing the knife to a trench knife, bat, claw hammer, xmas hammer, and the legendary weapons.

The tier list wouldn’t be on which melee is good it’ll be based on which melee is useable. Obviously the CS:GO knifes are gonna be at the top. Thus making every other weapon useless in terms of hit reg, damage or range. I’ve seen people complaining that trench knife or dive knife is such a useless dono weapon. The claw hammer has such short range same thing for the notorious trench knife thing has little to no range. The xmas hammer has the same issue. 
 

Y’all are putting the CS:GO knifes on a pedestal and really shows. If all other melees were a bit better knifes would be balanced along with the other melees.

In the end if the knife gets another nerf the melee diversity will just get swallowed by the meta. Then the melees would just be bad in general giving no one a reason to buy donator weapons. Just like the Titanfall weapons.

Edited October 4, 2020 by Oxteru

[[GL] Zeus]

-Support

[APE]

7 hours ago, girlboy said:

-SUPPORT

The knives' backstabs are strong because they are supposed to be a reward for achieving a flank. Currently, knives (because they primarily are a weapon for D-Class) are fighting against the strongest GENSEC has ever been with Wardens, Riot Control, and incredibly high activity due to a new server and good high command (seriously you guys have a page and a half almost everyday for a couple hours, it's honestly impressive). As a player who essentially only plays D-Class, I can tell you when attempting to use knives, you will NEVER achieve four consecutive backstabs on any foundation combatant, especially not any CC that knows how to play the game. 

Sure on paper it seems that knives are crazy with 440 dmg in 5 seconds, but I'm sure you just had the CC turn your back to you,  and you just right clicked. Think about context, when using a knife, you are always trying to rush and close distance... which makes you a priority. As soon as you're spotted, your combatant will backpedal and face you to get their shots in, making backstabs almost impossible. If players are lucky you get one good sneak attack and/or the combatant turns around to run. And for the players with knives, they end up knifing back, usually (as a D-Class CC) against someone with higher hp/armor and or more foundation on their side. To make knives even worse, the server has been in a meta where shotguns have been *dominating* for a WHILE, so closing in against the majority of players who strafe jump and shotgun with high latency and sometimes awkward hitreg? Not happening.

For the most part, I believe the server has been the most balanced since Site 05, and this is coming from a D-Class CC who faces shotguns and snipers and HSU and O9 Experimental Forces and those crazy CCs (Captain Mei, Omnipurpose, Psi-8, Invictus, ETC) and... you get my point. If anything, I feel that other weapons, specifically melee, are underpowered. Just look at the trench knife. I think why the knife gets so much attention is because honestly it's the only usable one. Every other melee weapon has bad hitreg against an already strong meta on a pretty laggy server. Fixing other melee weapons hitreg would introduce variety and open our eyes to the incredibly low standard melee weapons actually have. If knives are nerfed, melees will become obsolete, and it's just another weapon to be stumped by the meta we play in.

TL;DR knives are fine, consecutive backstabs never happen, and melees in general are actually very bad. don't let knives take the fall because of bad melees

The knives already took the fall and then got rebuffed more than any other melee I've seen get nerfed. This is not a gensec post however and the knife is not solely utilized by dclass. I would disagree, I say that it is very easy  to get multiple backstabs. When riots occur the enemy will not and is not coming from just one side, they are all around.  Not just riots but in general combat as well, if there is a good amount of people, then you cannot kill the guys all around you. Its easier to do on a 200 200 CC, but a security officer who is weaker than a pro dclass? forget it. Would you not prefer to be able to use more than one melee weapon? The fact that you are crutching on it rather than the many DCLASS CC weapons such as deagle, duel berrettas, tec-9, and so on shows that it is more usable than even the guns you are offered. Yet instead of trying to make it so you don't have to crutch on the knife, you prefer to leave things as is.

[Sixx]

For a 10$ Wepon to be more OP then 100$ weapons on the store is a problem, especially considering how alot of D-Class have them.