Disallow MTF/Foundation Members to camp Gates - Denied

[MattOminigo3]

41 minutes ago, Orange said:

-Support

Pretty much the issue you are trying to address is meta gaming when CI do their flag up advert. If MTF run to Gate A or EZ in preperation of the raid and you have valid proof from staff, Maynard, or just hop on 343 to spectate, report it.

I will try to ensure MTF command do not encourage or let the meta behavior happen, but as for guarding the gates and checkpoints that is fine to do.

 

[The CI Zero]

3 hours ago, NeoID said:

+ Support (With being stationed at checkpoints, not gates)
- Ok, so recently, this has been an issue I've seen in Foundation comms whilst on the ET/Maynard job. + Support on not camping gates. Recently, as soon as CI does their Flag Up adverts for raids, I've seen some MTF say in Foundation Comms "Moving to EZ/HCZ, no guards stationed there" and then they run from D-Block.

- I think they should be able to watch checkpoints, but not gates. I mean, theres a whole point of it having a window. It's a security checkpoint.

- So  + Support on them being stationed at checkpoints, but they can't be running from D-Block as soon as adverts start happening. They need to start being at the checkpoints more often, not running back and forth depending on current ooc adverts.

I need to do better getting more evidence when this happens. I failed to get any last time, for reasons I don't remember. But it does need to stop. Metagame is becoming a slightly bigger issue in the sense of current adverts. 

 

[Bread]

It is completely reasonable for a small squad of Nu7 to guard gate A on rotated intervals when there are enough on to do so. It is also Nu7 and wardens job to guard checkpoints

If they only move to guard when CI advert, thats metagaming. Either they always have a guard squad, or never have a guard squad.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Bread

[Gh0pit]

I'm just taking a lunch break or grabbing something from my car in the parking lot. 

-support

[Coltable]

9 hours ago, Orange said:

-Support

Pretty much the issue you are trying to address is meta gaming when CI do their flag up advert. If MTF run to Gate A or EZ in preperation of the raid and you have valid proof from staff, Maynard, or just hop on 343 to spectate, report it.

I will try to ensure MTF command do not encourage or let the meta behavior happen, but as for guarding the gates and checkpoints that is fine to do.

 

[Warren Talos]

+support  

when they see the flag up advert they camp gate A and when we exfil they still camp it i dont have a problem for them to camp gate A when we exfil the problem that mtf loves to meta game and cant stand a second without meta game

its just soo stupid 

[Henessy]

2 hours ago, WARREN TALOS said:

+support  

when they see the flag up advert they camp gate A and when we exfil they still camp it i dont have a problem for them to camp gate A when we exfil the problem that mtf loves to meta game and cant stand a second without meta game

its just soo stupid 

Got an issue with MTF metagaming? Then report them instead of bitching about it on the forums. That's what I do when CI metagame me when I'm on pathfinder during supply raids.

Just because some people break rules it doesn't make sense to remove the rule. That literally defeats the purpose of rules.

 

19 hours ago, [GL] Mike said:

Also so let's put it this way. You guys when you have a hostage at your base. You set up defenses, guard the entrance of your base set up explosives. Thats because you know MTF will EVENTUALLY come. So then why cant we sit there Advert or not and prepare for when you EVENTUALLY raid?

 

If you're allowed to guard CI Base entrance, it's perfectly reasonable for a top-secret foundation that contains things that easily can end the world or universe to have at least 3 guards stationed at entrances. 

This suggestion is a problem with individual players, not with the rule itself.

 

-SUPPORT

[Dang]

+ support 
- First the strategic position of Nu7 Spawn and E11 spawns with the camping at GATE A can be used beyond over powerful measures! I will now give a example, imagen a raid with 15 CI at least 2 or more will die at the first cracked door at GATE A because of the guarding MTF at gate A this leaves 13 CI remaining, Now When ci are cracking into the second door this gives E11 plenty of time to move into the foundation and group up with Nu7 or E11 can flank CI from behind. If CI are flanked at least another average of 2-5  people will die because e11 are strong and can use the flank as a key advantage point with the high terrain especially with snipers. Now around 8 CI are remaining from the flank. This also gives the Nu7 that died at the GATE A time to come of NLR and support the other MTF nu7 troops guarding at the last 2 remaining hackable doors. CI get through the last 2 remaining doors and almost loose around 2-4 men from the guarding NU7 at the doors prepared, Now ci are left with around 3 men in which they would have to crack through HCZ checkpoint and by that time E11 will be of there NLR and will be coming behind the CI. CI are now finished and Dead. Even if E11 don't flank and they just join Nu7 to guard the 2 Remaining crack able doors Ci will Loose at least 3/4 due to the mass amount of MTF at the gates guarding. Now CI with 3/4 of a force will have to do there task and exfil which means they will have to through another wave of MTF in which means they will be HIGHLY likely to die whilst leaving the facility, not to mention if they are retrieving D-class they have to fight Gensec also. 

- I am sorry from all of the possible scenarios i have thought off CI have a EXSTREMLY HIGH chance of dying every single time they raid. It would have to be very low MTF activity to get a successful raid.

- Now camping checkpoints that's fine in my opinion because it doesn't majorly effect the balancing between the Raid success rate.

- So overall i am + supporting to not allow MTF to camp GATES but allowing MTF to camp checkpoints.

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Dang

[Echo Romeo]

On 2/8/2021 at 7:04 AM, Phillers said:

-Support, it makes perfect sense to me for a few guards to be stationed at Gate-A/B. Besides, the Insurgency also always has people guarding their gate if they have an anomaly or a hostage in their possession.

Asfar as the checkpoints go, these should always be guarded they are quite literally called check points, what would they be without anyone to check?

 

On 2/8/2021 at 6:45 AM, [GL] Zeus said:

This literally goes against the very suggestion, we know CI are in the facility with in RP info so why wouldn't we guard the gates to prevent an exfil?

More so the advert of a CI Raid is in fact in RP so I don't see why that is a problem. If the advert is in RP, we can act in RP.
Now if the advert is out of RP then that's a different issue, more so if its out of RP why even bother adverting if no one can use that info in RP and act with that said info.

And tbh it makes sense that a covert foundation would have guards stationed at the gates and not leave it unguarded, maybe make a limit on how many MTF can station there as a compromise.
I understand what the suggestion is trying to do but the clauses stated in here are flawed arguments that contradict each other.

-Support for now

 

[enuz 💣]

1 minute ago, Dang said:

+ support 
- First the strategic position of Nu7 Spawn and E11 spawns with the camping at GATE A can be used beyond over powerful measures! I will now give a example, imagen a raid with 15 CI at least 2 or more will die at the first cracked door at GATE A because of the guarding MTF at gate A this leaves 13 CI remaining, Now When ci are cracking into the second door this gives E11 plenty of time to move into the foundation and group up with Nu7 or E11 can flank CI from behind. If CI are flanked at least another average of 2-5  people will die because e11 are strong and can use the flank as a key advantage point with the high terrane especially with snipers. Now around 8 CI are remaining from the flank. This also gives the Nu7 that died at the GATE A time to come of NLR and support the other MTF nu7 troops guarding at the last 2 remaining hackable doors. CI get through the last 2 remaining doors and almost loose around 2-4 men from the guarding NU7 at the doors prepared, Now ci are left with around 3 men in which they would have to crack through HCZ checkpoint and by that time E11 will be of there NLR and will be coming behind the CI. CI are now finished and Dead. Even if E11 don't flank and they just join Nu7 to guard the 2 Remaining crack able doors Ci will Loose at least 3/4 due to the mass amount of MTF at the gates guarding. Now CI with 3/4 of a force will have to do there task and exfil which means they will have to through another wave of MTF in which means they will be HIGHLY likely to die whilst leaving the facility, not to mention if they are retrieving D-class they have to fight Gensec also. 

- I am sorry from all of the possible scenarios i have thought of CI have a EXSTREMLY HIGH chance of dying every single time they raid. It would have to be very low MTF activity to get a successful raid.

- Now camping checkpoints that's fine in my opinion because it doesn't majorly effect the balancing between the Raid success rate.

- So overall i am + supporting to not allow MTF to camp GATES but allowing MTF to camp checkpoints.


 

 

[[GL] Fizz-y Soda]

8 minutes ago, Dang said:

+ support 
- First the strategic position of Nu7 Spawn and E11 spawns with the camping at GATE A can be used beyond over powerful measures! I will now give a example, imagen a raid with 15 CI at least 2 or more will die at the first cracked door at GATE A because of the guarding MTF at gate A this leaves 13 CI remaining, Now When ci are cracking into the second door this gives E11 plenty of time to move into the foundation and group up with Nu7 or E11 can flank CI from behind. If CI are flanked at least another average of 2-5  people will die because e11 are strong and can use the flank as a key advantage point with the high terrain especially with snipers. Now around 8 CI are remaining from the flank. This also gives the Nu7 that died at the GATE A time to come of NLR and support the other MTF nu7 troops guarding at the last 2 remaining hackable doors. CI get through the last 2 remaining doors and almost loose around 2-4 men from the guarding NU7 at the doors prepared, Now ci are left with around 3 men in which they would have to crack through HCZ checkpoint and by that time E11 will be of there NLR and will be coming behind the CI. CI are now finished and Dead. Even if E11 don't flank and they just join Nu7 to guard the 2 Remaining crack able doors Ci will Loose at least 3/4 due to the mass amount of MTF at the gates guarding. Now CI with 3/4 of a force will have to do there task and exfil which means they will have to through another wave of MTF in which means they will be HIGHLY likely to die whilst leaving the facility, not to mention if they are retrieving D-class they have to fight Gensec also. 

- I am sorry from all of the possible scenarios i have thought off CI have a EXSTREMLY HIGH chance of dying every single time they raid. It would have to be very low MTF activity to get a successful raid.

- Now camping checkpoints that's fine in my opinion because it doesn't majorly effect the balancing between the Raid success rate.

- So overall i am + supporting to not allow MTF to camp GATES but allowing MTF to camp checkpoints.

 

I also feel like it's a waste of resources having people stationed to guard Gate A instead of helping in RP scenarios like escorting into HCZ, preventing a breach, or recontaining an SCP. 

[Dakota]

On 2/8/2021 at 2:44 AM, sosok7979 said:

+Support. Sometimes MTF camp gate a and just wait for us to exfil so they can kill the hostage or d class

 

-SUPPORT

While I can somewhat see the reasoning for not camping BEFORE a raid (even though we are a secret facility that holds extremely valuable things), but guarding the gates knowing there is a raid to prevent CI exfil is perfectly legitimate since WE KNOW they are in the facility

Edited February 10, 2021 by Dakota

[J0LT]

+support

Sounds like kicking the dead horse, but having 1 life in the site versus as many needed is still a large disadvantage. This is not something we would like to see often, seeing it every once and a while is enough to piss off enlisted to their limit. Allowing it further will jist cause more problems

[Bread]

2 hours ago, [GL] Fizz-y Soda said:

I also feel like it's a waste of resources having people stationed to guard Gate A instead of helping in RP scenarios like escorting into HCZ, preventing a breach, or recontaining an SCP. 

I don't allow guarding unless there is a sufficient amount of MTF on. My suggestion is to somehow restrict calling CI out unless it is either safe to do so or its been a certain amount of time since they've been spotted. Earlier, me and a couple of Nu7 were guarding Gate A (I made sure that they weren't just aiming at doors at all times, they were actually standing in realistic spots with their weapons on safety), and we spotted CI. Within 5 seconds, we were killed, but it was called out because of an automatic bind.  Realistically, the ones guarding most likely wouldn't have been able to call them out during that time.

We're trying to do this to have a shred of a sense of RP. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Bread

[enuz 💣]

18 minutes ago, Bread said:

Within 5 seconds, we were killed, but it was called out because of an automatic bind.  Realistically, the ones guarding most likely wouldn't have been able to call them out during that time.

We're trying to do this to have a shred of a sense of RP. 

but the issue isnt about how fast and how insignificant the first round of MTF are, its the fact t hat E11 immediately can enter and kill us after we spent a bunch of time cracking the door. 

 

[Propane]

To everyone who thinks that MTF can only kill 2 CI each time they rush, maybe you just arent good enough to realise that's just dumb. A group of E11 on one side and some other branch on the other leads to almost everyones death. Also using realism doesnt work. Do you really think that you'd be able to respawn in real life? Do you think they'd allow a terrorist organization live within a mile of their foundation. This had been a long lasting argument which I guess never ends. Maybe you should train better so that you dont need to have each raid publicly known so you can have as many advantages as possible. 

 

 

 

-get good

[Henessy]

4 hours ago, Dang said:

+ support 
- First the strategic position of Nu7 Spawn and E11 spawns with the camping at GATE A can be used beyond over powerful measures! I will now give a example, imagen a raid with 15 CI at least 2 or more will die at the first cracked door at GATE A because of the guarding MTF at gate A this leaves 13 CI remaining, Now When ci are cracking into the second door this gives E11 plenty of time to move into the foundation and group up with Nu7 or E11 can flank CI from behind. If CI are flanked at least another average of 2-5  people will die because e11 are strong and can use the flank as a key advantage point with the high terrain especially with snipers. Now around 8 CI are remaining from the flank. This also gives the Nu7 that died at the GATE A time to come of NLR and support the other MTF nu7 troops guarding at the last 2 remaining hackable doors. CI get through the last 2 remaining doors and almost loose around 2-4 men from the guarding NU7 at the doors prepared, Now ci are left with around 3 men in which they would have to crack through HCZ checkpoint and by that time E11 will be of there NLR and will be coming behind the CI. CI are now finished and Dead. Even if E11 don't flank and they just join Nu7 to guard the 2 Remaining crack able doors Ci will Loose at least 3/4 due to the mass amount of MTF at the gates guarding. Now CI with 3/4 of a force will have to do there task and exfil which means they will have to through another wave of MTF in which means they will be HIGHLY likely to die whilst leaving the facility, not to mention if they are retrieving D-class they have to fight Gensec also. 

- I am sorry from all of the possible scenarios i have thought off CI have a EXSTREMLY HIGH chance of dying every single time they raid. It would have to be very low MTF activity to get a successful raid.

- Now camping checkpoints that's fine in my opinion because it doesn't majorly effect the balancing between the Raid success rate.

- So overall i am + supporting to not allow MTF to camp GATES but allowing MTF to camp checkpoints.

 

This exact same case can be made for CI when they camp their gate. Just the difference being MTF doesn't have to deal with 3 CI camping *their only entrance* but instead you got all of CI, their Hotshots, their Longshots, their CCs, their special forces and maybe even their praxedes fist. 

Sometimes even you got Longshots/Infils camping ontop of the outerwall to snipe MTF upon contact or visual contact.

 

--------------------------------

A question still no one has answered is why would CI be allowed to have their entire military force including E4s (aswell as Praxedes Fist if available) and Bio Engineers to camp their only entrance with barricades (and of course thermals upon a MTF raid) but MTF aren't allowed to have an absolute maximum of 3 Nu-7 at Gate A?

--------------------------------

Edited February 10, 2021 by Henessy

[Propane]

4 minutes ago, Henessy said:

A question still no one has answered is why would CI be allowed to have their entire military force including E4s (aswell as Praxedes Fist if available) and Bio Engineers to camp their only entrance with barricades (and of course thermals upon a MTF raid) but MTF aren't allowed to have an absolute maximum of 3 Nu-7 at Gate A?

Because they have an actual reason to expect a raid, so they prepare. Whilst you just want to go pew pew funny men at door so they cant sneak in

[[GL] Zeus]

18 minutes ago, Propane said:

Because they have an actual reason to expect a raid, so they prepare. Whilst you just want to go pew pew funny men at door so they cant sneak in

And we have literal world ending anomalies along with high clearance personnel.
Your point??

[Henessy]

8 minutes ago, Propane said:

Because they have an actual reason to expect a raid, so they prepare. Whilst you just want to go pew pew funny men at door so they cant sneak in

CI isn't the only reason a top-secret organization would want to have 3 guards at Gate A. They got D-Class and SCPs that might escape at any time aswell as Sarkic being able to raid at any time too

[Propane]

Just because something makes sense in RP, doesnt mean it works in a game. Kinda like how there wouldnt be child soldiers guarding said anomalies. Or, you know, allowing a terrorist organisation to strive near you. Or having D-Class walk outside their cells. Maybe even coming back from the dead is slightly unrealistic, kinda like the concept as a whole.

[Warren Talos]

16 minutes ago, Henessy said:

CI isn't the only reason a top-secret organization would want to have 3 guards at Gate A. They got D-Class and SCPs that might escape at any time aswell as Sarkic being able to raid at any time too

idc what you say ci get ready for a raid casue they only have 1 entrance and foundation got scps d class and other shit deal with it but ci dont have shit to do if they had a hostage and they foundation going to raid them 

but mtf are busy with d class and scp idk why would they camp gate a if you want to do that just stay at gate A for hours with out leaving your post not when you see the flag up advert and go like an idiot and getting ready to meta  

[WantedIdeas]

8 minutes ago, WARREN TALOS said:

but mtf are busy with d class and scp idk why would they camp gate a if you want to do that just stay at gate A for hours with out leaving your post not when you see the flag up advert and go like an idiot and getting ready to meta  

We have 2 squads, one dealing with Gates (the most we can have at the gate is 4 people) and a squad for Escorting, Feeding, Etc.

Rotating every 15 minutes, We stay at the gates for way before you do you adverts for any D-class/Sarkics, So no metagaming issues here, I don't really see the problem, it's 4 people max and you can probably just kill all of them.

I mean it would be way more overpowered if we stationed people per checkpoint since it's not limited to a specific amount so which is better, 4 People max at the gate or literally all of Nu7 at Checkpoints?

Edited February 10, 2021 by WantedIdeas

[NeoID]

6 hours ago, Henessy said:

This exact same case can be made for CI when they camp their gate. Just the difference being MTF doesn't have to deal with 3 CI camping *their only entrance* but instead you got all of CI, their Hotshots, their Longshots, their CCs, their special forces and maybe even their praxedes fist. 

Sometimes even you got Longshots/Infils camping ontop of the outerwall to snipe MTF upon contact or visual contact.

 

--------------------------------

A question still no one has answered is why would CI be allowed to have their entire military force including E4s (aswell as Praxedes Fist if available) and Bio Engineers to camp their only entrance with barricades (and of course thermals upon a MTF raid) but MTF aren't allowed to have an absolute maximum of 3 Nu-7 at Gate A?

--------------------------------

To be fair, we don’t really have a gate. Difference is, we have to hack the keypads, which take time, and get disrupted if we get shot. On the other hand, in CI base, the doors can be opened at any time, with absolutely no way for it cancel out your attempt. It’s already hard for CI to hack all the doors to EZ, Fight through 2 platoons of MTF, Gensec, Combatant Jobs like RIGs and O5 Staff usually if they’re on. Not to mention SCPs and D-Class. On the other hand, CI base is a lot smaller, and you would only need to fight through one, or two groups. Not to mention, apart from the praxedes fist, you guys have similar styled jobs. Snipers, cloakers, heavys, frontmen, scouts and operatives. If the fist is the problem than that’s a whole other argument. The fist also has heavy weaknesses, and is capible of being killed at ease if done correctly. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by NeoID

[[GL] Fizz-y Soda]

6 hours ago, Henessy said:

This exact same case can be made for CI when they camp their gate. Just the difference being MTF doesn't have to deal with 3 CI camping *their only entrance* but instead you got all of CI, their Hotshots, their Longshots, their CCs, their special forces and maybe even their praxedes fist. 

Sometimes even you got Longshots/Infils camping ontop of the outerwall to snipe MTF upon contact or visual contact.

 

--------------------------------

A question still no one has answered is why would CI be allowed to have their entire military force including E4s (aswell as Praxedes Fist if available) and Bio Engineers to camp their only entrance with barricades (and of course thermals upon a MTF raid) but MTF aren't allowed to have an absolute maximum of 3 Nu-7 at Gate A?

--------------------------------

But you can't use this argument to compare with. The fact that we need to use our whole Arsenal to protect a hostage/SCP just so we can RP didn't occur to you? R&D can't do regular on-sites if military can't get past EZ with enough people to keep them safe. If we're called out before we even get to HCZ then the test will most likely fail. RP occurs constantly inside the site, while RP for CI relies HEAVILY on raid success rate. You guys are complaining how there needs to be more RP reasons behind all these decisions, but have y'all even considered how this will affect R&D??? It's not JUST about military...