Riot Control Rework (Edited) - Denied

[DooM Guy]

What are you suggesting? - A rework of riot control

How would this change better the server? - Currently, riot control are one of the most OP gensec classes. 1 riot control is stronger than 2 jugs. I feel like the shot gun is the main problem. The XM is practically a sniper rifle. It can hit you from all the way across D-Block and still do 40 damage. The shotgun plus the 175hp and 150ap makes this class stupid insane. Now I'm not requesting making this class useless but at the moment it's almost impossible to have fun on D-Class, The issue is if there's 2+ riot control D-Block becomes impossible to take over. Hell, 1 riot control makes it insanely hard to riot. If you're gonna use the argument "But you guys take D-Block enough" I don't even wanna hear it. You guys have D-Block for the majority of the day. I understand D-Class are supposed to be weak but this is the most unbalanced thing on the server. Upper D-Block is basically our spawn, so essentially when we exit upper D-Block and come down the elevator and get killed instantly by an XM, that's pretty much spawn camping. Dying and coming back, and then dying and coming back just to get killed again is very tedious. 

I am suggesting to change the XM to the "tfa_ithacam37" (This is the weapon before the XM) and lower the health to 150hp and ap too 125ap.

Are there any disadvantages of making this change to the server? If so, explain. - Kinda, from a gensec stand point you guys wont like this much. I know this seems like a biased opinion but trust me, this can see be seen as a nerf but I see it as a rework.

Who would this change mostly benefit? - Any opposing foundation members.

Please link any workshop content, screenshots, or anything that you think may be helpful to those who view this suggestion - N/A



I've edited this post just to remove the HP and AP nerfs to fit with gensecs "Standards". But that XM needs to go bruh.


 

Edited February 25, 2021 by DooM Guy

[OWNED]

I feel like this is something that needs to be discussed with High command of GENSEC

as for the suggestion itself, I do believe riot control to still be on the strong side even with the addition of the purple line rule.

I think the nerfs are somewhat fair tbh, so ill leave a +support

[MexicanGuy]

+Support

For the change of weapon, to the weapon that the riot control can kill a dclass with one shot, in addition to being a fast weapon.

-Support

I do not think it is necessary to lower the life and the armor, it is supposed that riot control should be a little more tank than a nco, to be able to deal with the dclass that it has in front

[BadAim]

+support

the class is just way too much for what it’s meant to fight. On pro class-D I had to give up after 10 minutes because I couldn’t get past the 3 riot control camping the elevator. It’s just not fun to riot anymore when you can’t even get the chance to attack the main force of security.

[Bread]

Job changes are something only a HCMD member should do, but I do think the class is too strong and has too many slots.

[TAlila | Tay Keith!]

31 minutes ago, BadAim said:

+support

the class is just way too much for what it’s meant to fight. On pro class-D I had to give up after 10 minutes because I couldn’t get past the 3 riot control camping the elevator. It’s just not fun to riot anymore when you can’t even get the chance to attack the main force of security.

 

[Jack S]

You never came to us, this could have not been posted and we could have came to an agreement.

-Support, we can talk about this.

Shoot me a DM: Pax Romana#2945

I can think of one thing to nerf them. Other ones would have to be discussed.

We could make a rule about not camping the elevator, which is already discouraged but there is no rule.

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by [GL] loudyfam (Jack S)

[DooM Guy]

Man ya’ll say this like HCMD will listen to me

[Dakota]

2 hours ago, Bread said:

Job changes are something only a HCMD member should do, but I do think the class is too strong and has too many slots.

 

[Phillers]

3 hours ago, DooM Guy said:

Man ya’ll say this like HCMD will listen to me

Listening to complaints is half of HCMD's job, so I certainly do hope that they listen to you.
Atleast try first.

[girlboy]

+support 

riot control's shotgun calls me slurs 

[Tania]

(+Support)

Okay yes I do agree with reworking as I too am growing tired of having to deal with such an intolerable class. When the buff to riot control happened many D-Class were so frustrated that a single riot control could camp our elevator and wipe us out with ease. D-Class and even Gensec have stated that the class is atrocious and always complained that the class is overly tuned and in the recent Gensec Branch update change the class was "nerfed". I will now show an excerpt of the "change" to riot control from the Gensec Branch Update (12/27/2020).

This statement was accepted for the update keep in mind. Not one single riot control past this branch update obeyed this rule I myself have no clue why this rule isn't being enforced if the point was to "balance riot control". People just turned a blind eye to this rule and it's the most BS thing I have seen.

Now let me address the issue of camping out elevator. Oh boy.

Whenever that elevator comes down Riot control for some reason have a hive mind and decide to all band up and ADS the elevator like if some SCP was about to breach containment. Sure the purple line is there to protect us from Riot control but from D-Class POVs that line is meaningless. Whenever it's hands up riot control still camp the same peak in front elevator and still kill us. You guys also have numbers with shotguns and we all know that shotguns dominate the server. When we come down to fight against a hands up and to end up losing to some Lvl 20 Riot Control that has a broken gun and is pretty tanky it's seriously unfair, and yeah you Gensec might say "well you guys have a peak where you guys cant get shot" keep in mind that "spot" isn't as useful due to us still being able to get shot and can barely hold 2 D-CLASS. That spot is mainly used by CCs when the front two spots are taken by camping Riot Control, and even then its point less when a CC D-Class can get 2 tapped rarely 1 tapped by the XM10.

 

If you guys have been knowing that Riot Control is busted for almost 3 months why hasn't there been any changes to the class?

 

[Jack S]

1 hour ago, Oxteru said:

This statement was accepted for the update keep in mind. Not one single riot control past this branch update obeyed this rule I myself have no clue why this rule isn't being enforced if the point was to "balance riot control". People just turned a blind eye to this rule and it's the most BS thing I have seen.

Rule was revoked when the purple line became a thing.

[Rookieblue]

21 hours ago, Bread said:

Job changes are something only a HCMD member should do, but I do think the class is too strong and has too many slots.

 

21 hours ago, [GL] loudyfam (Jack S) said:

You never came to us, this could have not been posted and we could have came to an agreement.

-Support, we can talk about this.

Shoot me a DM: Pax Romana#2945

I can think of one thing to nerf them. Other ones would have to be discussed.

We could make a rule about not camping the elevator, which is already discouraged but there is no rule.

 

As a reminder, players are more than welcome to post suggestions regarding certain classes that they believe affect the server as a whole. The Head Command rule for suggestions are ONLY in regards to regular branch updates. A player requesting a specific class get a nerf if it has a significant effect on the server (GENSEC v D-Class would meet that) then it's perfectly fine. The player is more that welcome to reach out to a command member to get their input, but it is not required.

[Jack S]

4 minutes ago, Rookieblue said:

 

As a reminder, players are more than welcome to post suggestions regarding certain classes that they believe affect the server as a whole. The Head Command rule for suggestions are ONLY in regards to regular branch updates. A player requesting a specific class get a nerf if it has a significant effect on the server (GENSEC v D-Class would meet that) then it's perfectly fine. The player is more that welcome to reach out to a command member to get their input, but it is not required.

Yes I know but we could have came to an agreement that everyone likes, as I know Sixx has done this, we do listen to what they think as we try to balance our classes to D-class.

[Beepis]

-Support

Gensec as is already struggle at holding Dblock, Riot control have the purple line and main gensec have the blue line.

Taking Dblock should be something hard to do not something that is "oh hey peek out, shoot, duck back and repeat"

If you want to take Dblock work together and cooperate instead of nerfing everything

[Jameshi34]

-Support

On 2/20/2021 at 7:52 AM, DooM Guy said:

Hell, 1 riot control makes it insanely hard to riot. If you're gonna use the argument "But you guys take D-Block enough" I don't even wanna hear it. You guys have D-Block for the majority of the day. I understand D-Class are supposed to be weak but this is the most unbalanced thing on the server.

Complaining about Security holding D-Block for the majority of the day doesn't make much sense as it is quite literally our job to do so. Losing D-Block is a loss, a major loss, as you guys scurry throughout LCZ and HCZ and end up causing mass breaches. In my opinion, as a Gensec main, Security should never lose D-Block. Ever. I understand this isn't possible and won't ever be possible, but it's my ideal. D-Class are prisoners and nothing more - we should be able to regularly frisk you guys, kill on suspicion, and have access to the entirety of lower D-Block.

Rioting is meant to be insanely hard. You chose the route of the D-Class when you bought your CC, and SMT have given you guys a blue line, purple line, and a huge black barricade that makes Partial Lockdown look like a little kid's birthday party. If you want to be able to riot against Gensec you need to plan out an attack, strike when we're weak, and strike with great force. I know there's the Union discord and I also know they barely use it for scheduled riots which seems like a pretty big loss considering there's like 150 people in there, some with CCs. I do hear word that riots are hard to plan out since D-Class are mainly the newest people in the server, but I'm certain that if you coerced them with the benefits of a large-scale riot, you'd have a following.

Now onto the taking D-Block thing. Yes, in my opinion, D-Class take D-Block FAR MORE than they should. At this point, with Riot Control being the only thing between 3 CCs and 10 normal D-Class at a time, there is absolutely no need for a nerf, or "rework" as you like to call it. Yes, there are times where far less D-Class are on than Gensec and rioting seems impossible, and in these times you should either 1: Flag onto another job, or 2: Carefully plan something with the D-Class that are there. If there's not enough to take D-Block, then oh well. Again, D-Block isn't supposed to be like cutting warm butter. Don't try and make it as such by nerfing Security. Work with your peers and maybe you'll see results.

It seems to me you don't understand that D-Class are supposed to be weak as you are legit making a suggestion to give you guys an edge. The most unbalanced thing on the server is also the only thing stopping 15 D-Class from breaching every SCP and causing nukes daily. Before, when RC had the Ithaca, it was an abysmal job to play on. I despise the Ithaca with a burning passion. The XM is far better for us and I don't see a reason to change it other than "Gensec are holding D-Block!??!?!?!?!? WOAH That can't happen!!!"

TL;DR - Don't complain about the difficulty of riots; plan riots; deal with the XM

P.S.: If you want your opinion heard, go to Security HCMD before making a suggestion that nerfs one of their classes. I'm aware it's not required, but for formality's sake (and our HCMD's sanity), come to us first.

[Spud]

4 hours ago, Jameshi34 said:

-Support

On 2/20/2021 at 7:52 AM, DooM Guy said:

Hell, 1 riot control makes it insanely hard to riot. If you're gonna use the argument "But you guys take D-Block enough" I don't even wanna hear it. You guys have D-Block for the majority of the day. I understand D-Class are supposed to be weak but this is the most unbalanced thing on the server.

Complaining about Security holding D-Block for the majority of the day doesn't make much sense as it is quite literally our job to do so. Losing D-Block is a loss, a major loss, as you guys scurry throughout LCZ and HCZ and end up causing mass breaches. In my opinion, as a Gensec main, Security should never lose D-Block. Ever. I understand this isn't possible and won't ever be possible, but it's my ideal. D-Class are prisoners and nothing more - we should be able to regularly frisk you guys, kill on suspicion, and have access to the entirety of lower D-Block.

Rioting is meant to be insanely hard. You chose the route of the D-Class when you bought your CC, and SMT have given you guys a blue line, purple line, and a huge black barricade that makes Partial Lockdown look like a little kid's birthday party. If you want to be able to riot against Gensec you need to plan out an attack, strike when we're weak, and strike with great force. I know there's the Union discord and I also know they barely use it for scheduled riots which seems like a pretty big loss considering there's like 150 people in there, some with CCs. I do hear word that riots are hard to plan out since D-Class are mainly the newest people in the server, but I'm certain that if you coerced them with the benefits of a large-scale riot, you'd have a following.

Now onto the taking D-Block thing. Yes, in my opinion, D-Class take D-Block FAR MORE than they should. At this point, with Riot Control being the only thing between 3 CCs and 10 normal D-Class at a time, there is absolutely no need for a nerf, or "rework" as you like to call it. Yes, there are times where far less D-Class are on than Gensec and rioting seems impossible, and in these times you should either 1: Flag onto another job, or 2: Carefully plan something with the D-Class that are there. If there's not enough to take D-Block, then oh well. Again, D-Block isn't supposed to be like cutting warm butter. Don't try and make it as such by nerfing Security. Work with your peers and maybe you'll see results.

It seems to me you don't understand that D-Class are supposed to be weak as you are legit making a suggestion to give you guys an edge. The most unbalanced thing on the server is also the only thing stopping 15 D-Class from breaching every SCP and causing nukes daily. Before, when RC had the Ithaca, it was an abysmal job to play on. I despise the Ithaca with a burning passion. The XM is far better for us and I don't see a reason to change it other than "Gensec are holding D-Block!??!?!?!?!? WOAH That can't happen!!!"

TL;DR - Don't complain about the difficulty of riots; plan riots; deal with the XM

P.S.: If you want your opinion heard, go to Security HCMD before making a suggestion that nerfs one of their classes. I'm aware it's not required, but for formality's sake (and our HCMD's sanity), come to us first.

Couldn't agree more. Currently Riot Control is the the only thing that stands between Gensec and the almighty. If this suggestion gets accepted it's gonna cause a lot of problems.

[[GL] Mike]

On 2/20/2021 at 4:05 PM, Phillers said:

Listening to complaints is half of HCMD's job, so I certainly do hope that they listen to you.
Atleast try first.

 

4 hours ago, Jameshi34 said:

-Support

Complaining about Security holding D-Block for the majority of the day doesn't make much sense as it is quite literally our job to do so. Losing D-Block is a loss, a major loss, as you guys scurry throughout LCZ and HCZ and end up causing mass breaches. In my opinion, as a Gensec main, Security should never lose D-Block. Ever. I understand this isn't possible and won't ever be possible, but it's my ideal. D-Class are prisoners and nothing more - we should be able to regularly frisk you guys, kill on suspicion, and have access to the entirety of lower D-Block.

Rioting is meant to be insanely hard. You chose the route of the D-Class when you bought your CC, and SMT have given you guys a blue line, purple line, and a huge black barricade that makes Partial Lockdown look like a little kid's birthday party. If you want to be able to riot against Gensec you need to plan out an attack, strike when we're weak, and strike with great force. I know there's the Union discord and I also know they barely use it for scheduled riots which seems like a pretty big loss considering there's like 150 people in there, some with CCs. I do hear word that riots are hard to plan out since D-Class are mainly the newest people in the server, but I'm certain that if you coerced them with the benefits of a large-scale riot, you'd have a following.

Now onto the taking D-Block thing. Yes, in my opinion, D-Class take D-Block FAR MORE than they should. At this point, with Riot Control being the only thing between 3 CCs and 10 normal D-Class at a time, there is absolutely no need for a nerf, or "rework" as you like to call it. Yes, there are times where far less D-Class are on than Gensec and rioting seems impossible, and in these times you should either 1: Flag onto another job, or 2: Carefully plan something with the D-Class that are there. If there's not enough to take D-Block, then oh well. Again, D-Block isn't supposed to be like cutting warm butter. Don't try and make it as such by nerfing Security. Work with your peers and maybe you'll see results.

It seems to me you don't understand that D-Class are supposed to be weak as you are legit making a suggestion to give you guys an edge. The most unbalanced thing on the server is also the only thing stopping 15 D-Class from breaching every SCP and causing nukes daily. Before, when RC had the Ithaca, it was an abysmal job to play on. I despise the Ithaca with a burning passion. The XM is far better for us and I don't see a reason to change it other than "Gensec are holding D-Block!??!?!?!?!? WOAH That can't happen!!!"

TL;DR - Don't complain about the difficulty of riots; plan riots; deal with the XM

P.S.: If you want your opinion heard, go to Security HCMD before making a suggestion that nerfs one of their classes. I'm aware it's not required, but for formality's sake (and our HCMD's sanity), come to us first.

 

On 2/20/2021 at 10:30 PM, [GL] loudyfam (Jack S) said:

Rule was revoked when the purple line became a thing.

 

[Cloaker]

-Support

Riot Control is meant to "Control Riots" I don't think the stats on the job to change, tbh I would like to see the slots on the job lowered but that is it, in my opinion you guys already take over D-Block to much, if you don't like what I said tbh I could care less, 70% of the foundation relies on the fact that D-Block is secure (example: D-Block is lost, the entire research branch can't get Class-D, which might I added is almost as important as the SCP its self) or (example: MTF can't contain SCPs when they can't get Class-D).

[MexicanGuy]

5 hours ago, Jameshi34 said:

Complaining about Security holding D-Block for the majority of the day doesn't make much sense as it is quite literally our job to do so. Losing D-Block is a loss, a major loss, as you guys scurry throughout LCZ and HCZ and end up causing mass breaches. In my opinion, as a Gensec main, Security should never lose D-Block. Ever. I understand this isn't possible and won't ever be possible, but it's my ideal. D-Class are prisoners and nothing more - we should be able to regularly frisk you guys, kill on suspicion, and have access to the entirety of lower D-Block.

Rioting is meant to be insanely hard. You chose the route of the D-Class when you bought your CC, and SMT have given you guys a blue line, purple line, and a huge black barricade that makes Partial Lockdown look like a little kid's birthday party. If you want to be able to riot against Gensec you need to plan out an attack, strike when we're weak, and strike with great force. I know there's the Union discord and I also know they barely use it for scheduled riots which seems like a pretty big loss considering there's like 150 people in there, some with CCs. I do hear word that riots are hard to plan out since D-Class are mainly the newest people in the server, but I'm certain that if you coerced them with the benefits of a large-scale riot, you'd have a following.

Now onto the taking D-Block thing. Yes, in my opinion, D-Class take D-Block FAR MORE than they should. At this point, with Riot Control being the only thing between 3 CCs and 10 normal D-Class at a time, there is absolutely no need for a nerf, or "rework" as you like to call it. Yes, there are times where far less D-Class are on than Gensec and rioting seems impossible, and in these times you should either 1: Flag onto another job, or 2: Carefully plan something with the D-Class that are there. If there's not enough to take D-Block, then oh well. Again, D-Block isn't supposed to be like cutting warm butter. Don't try and make it as such by nerfing Security. Work with your peers and maybe you'll see results.

It seems to me you don't understand that D-Class are supposed to be weak as you are legit making a suggestion to give you guys an edge. The most unbalanced thing on the server is also the only thing stopping 15 D-Class from breaching every SCP and causing nukes daily. Before, when RC had the Ithaca, it was an abysmal job to play on. I despise the Ithaca with a burning passion. The XM is far better for us and I don't see a reason to change it other than "Gensec are holding D-Block!??!?!?!?!? WOAH That can't happen!!!"

TL;DR - Don't complain about the difficulty of riots; plan riots; deal with the XM

P.S.: If you want your opinion heard, go to Security HCMD before making a suggestion that nerfs one of their classes. I'm aware it's not required, but for formality's sake (and our HCMD's sanity), come to us first.

Okay, if you want to put things on that side, let's say that dblock should never lose or that it should not fall so often and in addition to being able to go upper Dblock to be able to kill every dclass that has a weapon or that you don't have their hands up. That would be unfair, that is why SMT implemented rules to prevent things from becoming too unfair, an easy example would be that scps cannot be in a team, that would simply be almost impossible to contain.

In my opinion, the biggest problems of the RC are the shotgun he has right now and the number of slots he has which are currently 5. Having at each corner of the elevator 2 riot control and even 3 waiting for you to show yourself, and them having a shotgun that can kill you with 1 shot (if you don't have armor) or 3 shots (if you have armor, which being honest the armor ends in the 2nd shot) in addition to having with you a scp that can be considered a tank and that can use both the riot shield and a staff that with just two hits immobilizes you and catches you with the cuff. But you will say because they simply move or withdraw their weapon so that 912 does not hit them and immobilize them, if it were that easy we would certainly do it, but the elevator space is not very large and if we leave the elevator we are an easy prey for gensec. But let's say that 5 dclass and 3 dclass cc plan to kill the 3 RC that are in dblock and that we kill them, wait they are not the only ones in GENSEC, they are also missing the enlisted, NCOs, Heavies, Sniper and Security cc.

Finally, I understand that they want the job to continue to be used because it is very useful to control the riots, but I just hope we can come up with a solution that is good for both of us.

[Sixx]

9 hours ago, Jameshi34 said:

-Support

Complaining about Security holding D-Block for the majority of the day doesn't make much sense as it is quite literally our job to do so. Losing D-Block is a loss, a major loss, as you guys scurry throughout LCZ and HCZ and end up causing mass breaches. In my opinion, as a Gensec main, Security should never lose D-Block. Ever. I understand this isn't possible and won't ever be possible, but it's my ideal. D-Class are prisoners and nothing more - we should be able to regularly frisk you guys, kill on suspicion, and have access to the entirety of lower D-Block.

Rioting is meant to be insanely hard. You chose the route of the D-Class when you bought your CC, and SMT have given you guys a blue line, purple line, and a huge black barricade that makes Partial Lockdown look like a little kid's birthday party. If you want to be able to riot against Gensec you need to plan out an attack, strike when we're weak, and strike with great force. I know there's the Union discord and I also know they barely use it for scheduled riots which seems like a pretty big loss considering there's like 150 people in there, some with CCs. I do hear word that riots are hard to plan out since D-Class are mainly the newest people in the server, but I'm certain that if you coerced them with the benefits of a large-scale riot, you'd have a following.

Now onto the taking D-Block thing. Yes, in my opinion, D-Class take D-Block FAR MORE than they should. At this point, with Riot Control being the only thing between 3 CCs and 10 normal D-Class at a time, there is absolutely no need for a nerf, or "rework" as you like to call it. Yes, there are times where far less D-Class are on than Gensec and rioting seems impossible, and in these times you should either 1: Flag onto another job, or 2: Carefully plan something with the D-Class that are there. If there's not enough to take D-Block, then oh well. Again, D-Block isn't supposed to be like cutting warm butter. Don't try and make it as such by nerfing Security. Work with your peers and maybe you'll see results.

It seems to me you don't understand that D-Class are supposed to be weak as you are legit making a suggestion to give you guys an edge. The most unbalanced thing on the server is also the only thing stopping 15 D-Class from breaching every SCP and causing nukes daily. Before, when RC had the Ithaca, it was an abysmal job to play on. I despise the Ithaca with a burning passion. The XM is far better for us and I don't see a reason to change it other than "Gensec are holding D-Block!??!?!?!?!? WOAH That can't happen!!!"

TL;DR - Don't complain about the difficulty of riots; plan riots; deal with the XM

P.S.: If you want your opinion heard, go to Security HCMD before making a suggestion that nerfs one of their classes. I'm aware it's not required, but for formality's sake (and our HCMD's sanity), come to us first.

-Support

[Sixx]

On 2/20/2021 at 4:01 PM, DooM Guy said:

Man ya’ll say this like HCMD will listen to me

Just shoot me a DM if you ever have an idea/change you want for GenSec, I'm all open ears for new ideas.

[jackyman21]

-support

im pretty sure that literally ALL of gensec HC just told you to talk to them, perhaps you should do that....

[Mind Stone]

-Support

Until you decide to speak with either me, Jack S, or Sixx and we can come to a compromise, I won't support this.