Disallow MTF/Foundation Members to camp Gates - Denied

[That Fireman Guy]

What are you suggesting? -  
To make it against the rules for MTF to Camp that Gates WITHOUT RP Reasons (They would NEED Knowledge of a incoming CI raid, not just the advert,  to start camping them)

How would this change better the server? -  Make it so CI can actually get inside the Facility without being Blasted by 30 different Explosive classes, giving them a actual chance.

Are there any disadvantages of making this change to the server? If so, explain. -  Can't really think of any at the moment

Who would this change mostly benefit? -  CI, Sarkic, and (Possibly) D Class

Edited February 8, 2021 by That Fireman Guy

[sosok7979]

+Support. Sometimes MTF camp gate a and just wait for us to exfil so they can kill the hostage or d class

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by sosok7979

[Yato Sensei]

+ Support for the gate camping
This wasn't really a problem until recently when it was mentioned that MTF are allowed to camp gates. I find it quite unfair towards CI. 

[[GL] Zeus]

2 hours ago, sosok7979 said:

+Support. Sometimes MTF camp gate a and just wait for us to exfil so they can kill the hostage or d class

 

This literally goes against the very suggestion, we know CI are in the facility with in RP info so why wouldn't we guard the gates to prevent an exfil?

More so the advert of a CI Raid is in fact in RP so I don't see why that is a problem. If the advert is in RP, we can act in RP.
Now if the advert is out of RP then that's a different issue, more so if its out of RP why even bother adverting if no one can use that info in RP and act with that said info.

And tbh it makes sense that a covert foundation would have guards stationed at the gates and not leave it unguarded, maybe make a limit on how many MTF can station there as a compromise.
I understand what the suggestion is trying to do but the clauses stated in here are flawed arguments that contradict each other.

-Support for now

Edited February 8, 2021 by [GL] Zeus

[Phillers]

-Support, it makes perfect sense to me for a few guards to be stationed at Gate-A/B. Besides, the Insurgency also always has people guarding their gate if they have an anomaly or a hostage in their possession.

Asfar as the checkpoints go, these should always be guarded they are quite literally called check points, what would they be without anyone to check?

Edited February 8, 2021 by Phillers

[Sixx]

Just now, Phillers said:

-Support, it makes perfect sense to me for a few guards to be stationed at Gate-A/B. Besides, the Insurgency also always has people guarding their gate if they have an anomaly or a hostage in their possession.

-Support

[That Fireman Guy]

6 minutes ago, [GL] Zeus said:

This literally goes against the very suggestion, we know CI are in the facility with in RP info so why wouldn't we guard the gates to prevent an exfil?
More so the advert of a CI Raid is in fact in RP so I don't see why that is a problem. If the advert is in RP, we can act in RP.
Now if the advert is out of RP then that's a different issue, more so if its out of RP why even bother adverting if no one can use that info in RP and act with that said info.

And tbh it makes sense that a covert foundation would have guards stationed at the gates and not leave it unguarded, maybe make a limit on how many MTF can station there as a compromise.
I understand what the suggestion is trying to do but the clauses stated in here are flawed arguments that contradict each other.
-Support for now

Camping the gates makes it almost impossible for CI to even get into the facility, and you don't even guard it unless you see the advert.

Please feel free to station them at gates, that would be a RP reason, but don't do it JUST because of a CI Flag up advert. and Don't do it with Explosive classes, give CI a Chance, is what I'm asking.  I'm saying that yall shouldn't just start guarding it just due to a CI flag up advert. As it feels like metagaming and is extremely unfair to CI. 

[Yeppes]

Camping gates is debatable, however I'd never agree about checkpoints. As long as CI has numbers that reflect a good percent of their roster they should have no problem achieving their goal of taking hostages or SCP, same goes for D class as long as they cooperate.

I've been part of raids when numbers were about equal, that with MTF stationed at checkpoints and those still managed to get us hostages.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Yeppes

[R̦̺̐ͫő̼̺͊c̘k̄]

-support

Its literally our main job to keep the site secure and guard it against threats, We have been told we are allowed up to three guards at gate A or B, CI and Sarkics should be able to easily kill three people. We usually station people to guard it for up to 30 minutes at a time regardless of if there's enough people for a raid to take place. If we're restricted from doing our job by guarding these positions what will be next? No guarding dblock? No guarding scp's? Stopping us from doing a large part of our job doesn't make sense.

[Sixx]

Also when it comes to camping CPs, its one of Wardens primary duties to be at the LCZ/HCZ CPs and ID check people. 

[[GL] Zeus]

Pretty sure some SMT said we can station upto if I'm not mistaken 3 MTF at the gate and if an entire CI raid cannot take down 3 MTF then I see an issue.
More so may I mention, over the past few days when they have been complaining, literally NO ONE has used gate B. It exists for a reason, now you may say isn't it near E11 base tho. I mean on times when there were no E11 on too.

Still maintaining my -Support

Edited February 8, 2021 by [GL] Zeus

[That Fireman Guy]

5 minutes ago, [GL] Zeus said:

Pretty sure igneous and rookie said we can station upto if I'm not mistaken 3 MTF at the gate and if an entire CI raid cannot take down 3 MTF then I see an issue.
More so may I mention, over the past few days when they have been complaining, literally NO ONE has used gate B. It exists for a reason, now you may say isn't it near E11 base tho. I mean on times when there were no E11 on too.

Still maintaining my -Support

It's not that CI can't take down 3 MTF, its that it's usually Explosive/ High Rate of DPS weapon using MTF, Imagine being immediately ripped apart by 3 CI Trap Experts at the same time while you can't fire at them due to them being around a corner. That's the sort of stuff I mean, also I sometimes highly doubt that there are just 3 MTF half the time, I've seen CI Raids instantly shut down in like 10 seconds.

I agree on the Gate B thing. 
Also I'm editing the suggestion, I changed my mind about Checkpoints.

Edited February 8, 2021 by That Fireman Guy

[Ashh]

When it comes to Checkpoints its Wardens / MTF Job to guard it and check IDs. As for Gate A / B I would be pretty sure a whole CI raid would be able to take down 3 MTF guarding the gate.
-Support

Edited February 8, 2021 by Ashh

[[GL] Zeus]

2 minutes ago, That Fireman Guy said:

It's not that CI can't take down 3 MTF, its that it's usually Explosive/ High Rate of DPS weapon using MTF, Imagine being immediately ripped apart by 3 CI Trap Experts at the same time while you can't fire at them due to them being around a corner. That's the sort of stuff I mean, also I sometimes highly doubt that there are just 3 MTF half the time, I've seen CI Raids instantly shut down in like 10 seconds.

I agree on the Gate B thing. 
Also I'm editing the suggestion, I changed my mind about Checkpoints.

Riot shields exist, Trap experts exists, waiting for one person to go in and scout the location exists, infils also exist. There are so many tactics to overcome to situation. I just feel like this Is unnecessary and can just be dealt with by teaching new tactics and the suggestion is just taking the easy way out

[That Fireman Guy]

2 minutes ago, [GL] Zeus said:

Riot shields exist, Trap experts exists, waiting for one person to go in and scout the location exists, infils also exist. There are so many tactics to overcome to situation. I just feel like this Is unnecessary and can just be dealt with by teaching new tactics and the suggestion is just taking the easy way out

I can agree, although most of those cost money, which the raiders might not have. 
All I'm gonna ask is that you try to enforce the 3 MTF rule, and at least try to avoid using Explosive classes (or just use 1) to do it, Even if Riot Shields exists, It doesn't stop the ones that don't.

Other than that, I'll keep this post up to see if there's other reasons, but personally, I've been convinced. I'll hide this post in a bit.

[NeoID]

+ Support (With being stationed at checkpoints, not gates)
- Ok, so recently, this has been an issue I've seen in Foundation comms whilst on the ET/Maynard job. + Support on not camping gates. Recently, as soon as CI does their Flag Up adverts for raids, I've seen some MTF say in Foundation Comms "Moving to EZ/HCZ, no guards stationed there" and then they run from D-Block.

- I think they should be able to watch checkpoints, but not gates. I mean, theres a whole point of it having a window. It's a security checkpoint.

- So  + Support on them being stationed at checkpoints, but they can't be running from D-Block as soon as adverts start happening. They need to start being at the checkpoints more often, not running back and forth depending on current ooc adverts.

I need to do better getting more evidence when this happens. I failed to get any last time, for reasons I don't remember. But it does need to stop. Metagame is becoming a slightly bigger issue in the sense of current adverts. 

[Southpaw]

I dont think its fair for MTF to camp gates when they see a flag up ping.

SF, Explosives, or a close range heavy job should never be at a gate waiting for CI to waltz in

I can see the limit being like two operatives during and after a CI raid, it really just needs to be discussed with MTF CMD about it as well

+/- Support

 

[MexicanGuy]

 

as long as a raid  not was adverted.

+Support

Edited February 8, 2021 by MexicanGuy

[[GL] Mike]

8 hours ago, [GL] Zeus said:

This literally goes against the very suggestion, we know CI are in the facility with in RP info so why wouldn't we guard the gates to prevent an exfil?

More so the advert of a CI Raid is in fact in RP so I don't see why that is a problem. If the advert is in RP, we can act in RP.
Now if the advert is out of RP then that's a different issue, more so if its out of RP why even bother adverting if no one can use that info in RP and act with that said info.

And tbh it makes sense that a covert foundation would have guards stationed at the gates and not leave it unguarded, maybe make a limit on how many MTF can station there as a compromise.
I understand what the suggestion is trying to do but the clauses stated in here are flawed arguments that contradict each other.

-Support for now

Also so let's put it this way. You guys when you have a hostage at your base. You set up defenses, guard the entrance of your base set up explosives. Thats because you know MTF will EVENTUALLY come. So then why cant we sit there Advert or not and prepare for when you EVENTUALLY raid?

Edited February 8, 2021 by [GL] Mike

[Not Niro]

Explosive Classes are getting removed soon i think and even if they are still there its very easy to send in heavys and sf with a lot of hp to tank the shots,
And its a gate and its meant to be guarded and its mainly mass raids with like 10-20 ci and there is like 2-3 nu7 protecting the camp only 2 can be a explosive classes

-Support

[Alexxxx]

1 hour ago, NeoID said:

+ Support (With being stationed at checkpoints, not gates)
- Ok, so recently, this has been an issue I've seen in Foundation comms whilst on the ET/Maynard job. + Support on not camping gates. Recently, as soon as CI does their Flag Up adverts for raids, I've seen some MTF say in Foundation Comms "Moving to EZ/HCZ, no guards stationed there" and then they run from D-Block.

- I think they should be able to watch checkpoints, but not gates. I mean, theres a whole point of it having a window. It's a security checkpoint.

- So  + Support on them being stationed at checkpoints, but they can't be running from D-Block as soon as adverts start happening. They need to start being at the checkpoints more often, not running back and forth depending on current ooc adverts.

I need to do better getting more evidence when this happens. I failed to get any last time, for reasons I don't remember. But it does need to stop. Metagame is becoming a slightly bigger issue in the sense of current adverts. 

^ Im agreeing with what Neo said.

[WantedIdeas]

2 hours ago, R̦̺̐ͫő̼̺͊c̘k̄ said:

-support

Its literally our main job to keep the site secure and guard it against threats, We have been told we are allowed up to three guards at gate A or B, CI and Sarkics should be able to easily kill three people. We usually station people to guard it for up to 30 minutes at a time regardless of if there's enough people for a raid to take place. If we're restricted from doing our job by guarding these positions what will be next? No guarding dblock? No guarding scp's? Stopping us from doing a large part of our job doesn't make sense.

 

[Henessy]

2 hours ago, That Fireman Guy said:

its that it's usually Explosive/ High Rate of DPS weapon using MTF

That's legit how it is for MTF when they raid CI

[Orange 🍊]

-Support

Pretty much the issue you are trying to address is meta gaming when CI do their flag up advert. If MTF run to Gate A or EZ in preperation of the raid and you have valid proof from staff, Maynard, or just hop on 343 to spectate, report it.

I will try to ensure MTF command do not encourage or let the meta behavior happen, but as for guarding the gates and checkpoints that is fine to do.

[BadAim]

35 minutes ago, Orange said:

-Support

Pretty much the issue you are trying to address is meta gaming when CI do their flag up advert. If MTF run to Gate A or EZ in preperation of the raid and you have valid proof from staff, Maynard, or just hop on 343 to spectate, report it.

I will try to ensure MTF command do not encourage or let the meta behavior happen, but as for guarding the gates and checkpoints that is fine to do.