Remove (Merge) TAC Departments - Denied

[utetwo]

What do you want to see? - Two or Three TAC departments removed.

 

 

Why should we add it? - 

Our server is barely roleplay oriented anymore.

There are too many TAC departments. It's just guns and bank raids and whatnot. By focusing on the Government's roleplay departments and subsequent aspects, we can enjoy better roleplay and less Call-Of-Duty.

 

 

What are the advantages of having this? - 

We could have more roleplay situations, and less run-and-guns.

No city has Five+ TAC units

With the addition of "Delta Squad", we now have Five TAC units. This is too much. 

Instead of another "gun shooting" unit, we could have another "roleplay" unit!

 

 

Before you -support;

Existing units can be merged into another one, and everybody keeps their ranks! Horray!

 

Who is it mainly for? - The sanity of the server.

 

Links to any content - N/A

Edited January 31, 2020 by utetwo

[th3]

+Support

More fun

[Springs]

+support 

But keep DS

 

[Mr Yobo]

- Support

 

Everyone will keep their ranks?

So we are going to have 6 Commanders and 6 Co Commanders? Abandon their unit and join another where they wont have the same abilities?
That poured their literal heart and soul to get the department too where it is right now?


If this going to be your argument of actual being a role play server Rockford State Police is a version of Illinois State Police.. and Rockford is in Illinois. State Police have a Tac Team..
State Police has their tactical department for valid reasons.. It is a department of State providing tactical need too Outskirts and anywhere else needed. They are Elite trained State troopers. 

We would be a Role-play unit if people like yourself wouldn't drive away and break priority rules then problems regarding no role play wouldn't occur. 

I understand your point in this but you need too understand how much effort we have put into these departments behind the scenes, How much effort SMT have put into it. How much hours of training and SOP writing just to be merged and then have arguments of how we are doing things. I strongly disagree. 

State has their way of doing things and has a close family bond.
Same as the other departments. 

So when we rock up too situations we all deal with it how we know. And it works. I don't see what the argument is? We barely have Alot of TAC on most the time. And when we do its because of Mass Crime. 
And before YOU say that "oh goverment are so overpowerd with all the tac teams we cant kill them" I can give you hours upon hours of videos that show me and two others getting rekd by a Negev... 

What benefit will this have?

I beleive this descion should come from High Command Circle like we have been discusing in our High Command chat. After all. You wouldnt understand what Blitzon, Mikey, Livebait, Andrew, Eternity, Hunt, Freeze, Ronin, Ecott, Calamity and Myself have gone through too get our department where they are today..

Edited February 1, 2020 by Yobo

[Jayden]

3 hours ago, th3 said:

+Support

More fun

I honestly agree. There are far too many. But then again Yobo makes a great point. The leaders of their departments have put a lot into making their department what they are, and to lose that would be insane to them. Not only that but imagine being SMT and having to choose which department gets removed. There honestly won't be a way to make a fair decision.

 

While it sounds like I should be +/- supporting , I will +support based on the fact that I'm sure merging could work somehow, and that when it comes down to it, it is a video game. I don't think anyone should complain about it. All in all would be a betterment to the server so.

+Support

(There is no way in hell this suggestion gets Accepted tho xD

Edited February 1, 2020 by Jayden

[th3]

I like how whenever a suggestion like this comes up, it always becomes someone else's fault for not roleplaying.

[Springs]

1 hour ago, Yobo said:

- Support

 

Everyone will keep their ranks?

So we are going to have 6 Commanders and 6 Co Commanders? Abandon their unit and join another where they wont have the same abilities?
That poured their literal heart and soul to get the department too where it is right now?


If this going to be your argument of actual being a role play server Rockford State Police is a version of Illinois State Police.. and Rockford is in Illinois. State Police have a Tac Team..
State Police has their tactical department for valid reasons.. It is a department of State providing tactical need too Outskirts and anywhere else needed. They are Elite trained State troopers. 

We would be a Role-play unit if people like yourself wouldn't drive away and break priority rules then problems regarding no role play wouldn't occur. 

I understand your point in this but you need too understand how much effort we have put into these departments behind the scenes, How much effort SMT have put into it. How much hours of training and SOP writing just to be merged and then have arguments of how we are doing things. I strongly disagree. 

State has their way of doing things and has a close family bond.
Same as the other departments. 

So when we rock up too situations we all deal with it how we know. And it works. I don't see what the argument is? We barely have Alot of TAC on most the time. And when we do its because of Mass Crime. 
And before YOU say that "oh goverment are so overpowerd with all the tac teams we cant kill them" I can give you hours upon hours of videos that show me and two others getting rekd by a Negev... 

What benefit will this have?

I beleive this descion should come from High Command Circle like we have been discusing in our High Command chat. After all. You wouldnt understand what Blitzon, Mikey, Livebait, Andrew, Eternity, Hunt, Freeze, Ronin, Ecott, Calamity and Myself have gone through too get our department where they are today..

Changing my opinion to -support he has a point and I dont want to leave my tac unit 

[Tonto]

1 hour ago, Yobo said:

- Support

 

Everyone will keep their ranks?

So we are going to have 6 Commanders and 6 Co Commanders? Abandon their unit and join another where they wont have the same abilities?
That poured their literal heart and soul to get the department too where it is right now?


If this going to be your argument of actual being a role play server Rockford State Police is a version of Illinois State Police.. and Rockford is in Illinois. State Police have a Tac Team..
State Police has their tactical department for valid reasons.. It is a department of State providing tactical need too Outskirts and anywhere else needed. They are Elite trained State troopers. 

We would be a Role-play unit if people like yourself wouldn't drive away and break priority rules then problems regarding no role play wouldn't occur. 

I understand your point in this but you need too understand how much effort we have put into these departments behind the scenes, How much effort SMT have put into it. How much hours of training and SOP writing just to be merged and then have arguments of how we are doing things. I strongly disagree. 

State has their way of doing things and has a close family bond.
Same as the other departments. 

So when we rock up too situations we all deal with it how we know. And it works. I don't see what the argument is? We barely have Alot of TAC on most the time. And when we do its because of Mass Crime. 
And before YOU say that "oh goverment are so overpowerd with all the tac teams we cant kill them" I can give you hours upon hours of videos that show me and two others getting rekd by a Negev... 

What benefit will this have?

I beleive this descion should come from High Command Circle like we have been discusing in our High Command chat. After all. You wouldnt understand what Blitzon, Mikey, Livebait, Andrew, Eternity, Hunt, Freeze, Ronin, Ecott, Calamity and Myself have gone through too get our department where they are today..

 

[Max Holland]

-support 

Reasons stated above 

(no)

[Dono]

tac units would be more organized if there were less of them. We could have multiple teams within tac units simulataneously online coordinating effectively in teamspeak and the response to actual crimes would be much faster

less seperate tac units = more centralized organization and teamwork. being assigned to squads would actually be plausible and tac unit performance would skyrocket as they work more with their teamates consistently over time and become more able to conduct large scale operations more efficiently.

but no one wants "their" Tac unit to be removed so now we have a predicament where there will be no one happy if the units were to be centralized. big brain time

+support

The focus should be on what is best for the server and the playerbase. Even tho it has taken much to form and develop these tac teams you need to realize that hindsight is 20/20 and that not all things done first are the best thing to do.... Just look at the US Army Air Corps. That was good for awhile.. then we needed to break it apart and form the Air Force. The same logic can be applied to this, just in a reverse fashion. 
I only ask that this suggestion be carefully and closely examined to ensure that the server is getting its best out of the players.

Edited February 1, 2020 by Dono

[TheJayden]

10 minutes ago, Max Holland said:

-support 

Reasons stated above 

(no)

 

[Dono]

Merging TAC units doesn't have to be painful as you guys make it seem. If new organization and structure is introduced to compress the tac units, the process would be much smoother. Create a different COC for the tac units for the officer roles that supports the compression of all the other tac unit leaders. Heres one idea I just now came up with in my brain:

TAC Commander: (all current TAC unit commanders can compete for this position)

TAC Asst.  Commander (all current TAC unit commanders + co commanders can compete for this position)

TAC Squad leader 1, 2 ,3, 4, 5 , 6 ,7 ..... (All remaining commanders get automatically assigned into this role)

TAC Asst. Squad leader.  (All remaining co commanders get assigned directly under the commander they once served before: (can swap with other cocomanders for a different squad if they so choose)

TAC Colonel and below (Squad leaders at Colonel  everything else follows suit below)

______________________________________________________

Obviously this is just something i briefly made up, but I could defnitely see that if we actually at least TRIED to come up with a system. maybe this suggestion wouldn't actually be bad at all.

[Hannah]

Major +support Delta squad should have never became an actual tac department 

3 reasons 

Balance issues between crim

Small ass map that all tac units are 30/60 seconds out  

 

Criminal's can not breathe witch makes robberys pointless 

 

I don't get why friendly Steve would  even let this happen also because he nerfed all departments because they were unbalended   my eyes Delta squad should become an assistant tac unit   to benefit the server 

 

[Mr Yobo]

23 minutes ago, Dono said:

Merging TAC units doesn't have to be painful as you guys make it seem. If new organization and structure is introduced to compress the tac units, the process would be much smoother. Create a different COC for the tac units for the officer roles that supports the compression of all the other tac unit leaders. Heres one idea I just now came up with in my brain:

TAC Commander: (all current TAC unit commanders can compete for this position)

TAC Asst.  Commander (all current TAC unit commanders + co commanders can compete for this position)

TAC Squad leader 1, 2 ,3, 4, 5 , 6 ,7 ..... (All remaining commanders get automatically assigned into this role)

TAC Asst. Squad leader.  (All remaining co commanders get assigned directly under the commander they once served before: (can swap with other cocomanders for a different squad if they so choose)

TAC Colonel and below (Squad leaders at Colonel  everything else follows suit below)

______________________________________________________

Obviously this is just something i briefly made up, but I could defnitely see that if we actually at least TRIED to come up with a system. maybe this suggestion wouldn't actually be bad at all.

No I earnt my rank.
 I'm not playing Survival island for that shit

[th3]

4 minutes ago, Yobo said:

No I earnt my rank.
 I'm not playing Survival island for that shit

So even if such a thing were to happen for the betterment of the server you wouldn't care. lol

[Dono]

Aight lol. If the opportunity to maintain all previous ranks throughout the merge was presented to you as I just suggested a very simple way of doing it. Then your argument would be put at rest. The names for ranks can be changed and altered, the layout, abilities and responsibilities can also be carried over. If, lets say this all occurs, which it should, then there would be no other reason to not support merging tac units. Unless of course personal selfish desires to be called a specific name are over weighing decision making skills. A structured multi squad system would fix every issue with merging. 

[Mr Yobo]

20 minutes ago, th3 said:

So even if such a thing were to happen for the betterment of the server you wouldn't care. lol

I'm sorry but did I ask?

[Dono]

11 minutes ago, Yobo said:

I'm sorry but did I ask?

Please remain mature and respectful for your rank. You represent State and that toxic attitude in a civil discussion about potential ideas that could benefit the server is unneeded. You paint a bad picture for the rest of State by speaking like this.

[Pooders]

-Support Reasons above

this in no shape or form will get accepted even if its over whelmed with +supports 

-yobo has a good point it would make zero sense 

-lets not Argue in the chat Alright? Take it somewhere Else

[Mr Yobo]

1 minute ago, Dono said:

Please remain mature and respectful for your rank. You represent State and that toxic attitude in a civil discussion about potential ideas that could benefit the server is unneeded. You paint a bad picture for the rest of State by speaking like this.

I was simply responding in the same manner that Ex HOS gave me. Being toxic is a whole another level 

[th3]

46 minutes ago, Pooders said:

this in no shape or form will get accepted even if its over whelmed with +supports 

-lets not Argue in the chat Alright? Take it somewhere Else

Not really a good reason to -support. A suggestion like this provokes discussion which isn't bad. Also there hasn't been any arguing just discussions about the merits of this suggestion.

 

46 minutes ago, Yobo said:

I was simply responding in the same manner that Ex HOS gave me. Being toxic is a whole another level 

I think he should've substituted the word toxic for immaturity. I shouldn't have added a three letter abbreviation to the end of my response/statement given that you don't want to respond to a valid statement maturely to prove you deserve your rank, given your previous actions as State COL. I should have just phrased it like this.

I don't think you would give up responsibility even if it was for the betterment of the server from what I have seen. 

But that was my fault for injecting my opinion into this discussion. Perhaps we can break down your -Support.

4 hours ago, Yobo said:

- Support

 

Everyone will keep their ranks?

So we are going to have 6 Commanders and 6 Co Commanders? Abandon their unit and join another where they wont have the same abilities?
That poured their literal heart and soul to get the department too where it is right now?

Starting here.

Of course not everyone would keep their ranks. Shrinking the amount of Tactical Units would directly correlate with people not keeping their Commander/Co Commander spots. As has been done in the past, I highly doubt they would not receive reserves or be prioritized for command positions that they would have to compete for but would be in a smaller pool of candidates due to their past experience. To answer your question about them joining another unit without the same abilities, I don't know what you mean. I don't think that people would be getting their equivalent command position but at the same time, more members in Tactical Units allows for diversification as the Original Poster Mentioned. Examples such as "Squads" which the OP went into more detail could more adequately be developed to allow for different groups within each Tactical Branch to really specialize and allow for more experimenting in terms of Roleplay. As for the Command members pouring their heart and soul, I understand the dedication that being the head of a Roleplaying branch takes. However, I don't think in the long run it will really matter given the ideas that have been discussed by the OP. One example of this could be a head of a department being removed due to their poor attitude and innapropriate conduct ingame or say on the forums. Their act of pouring their literal heart and soul wont matter then, and especially if they are given an opportunity due to their dedication to be placed in command positions after this proposed suggestion would be implemented. Yes they wouldn't most likely be high command anymore but they still aren't just walking away empty handed. 

4 hours ago, Yobo said:

If this going to be your argument of actual being a role play server Rockford State Police is a version of Illinois State Police.. and Rockford is in Illinois. State Police have a Tac Team..

State Police has their tactical department for valid reasons.. It is a department of State providing tactical need too Outskirts and anywhere else needed. They are Elite trained State troopers. 

We would be a Role-play unit if people like yourself wouldn't drive away and break priority rules then problems regarding no role play wouldn't occur. 

He isn't talking about removing CERT. What he is suggesting is that there are too many Tactical Units who are revolving around the shooty shooty bang bang. This results in RP not happening due to the focus of a majority of Tactical Units on simply doing a TDM simulator with 3 minute timers. I don't think this example really helps considering the lax restrictions on the former jurisdictions rules which I do not know if they are still in effect given that I see that not followed when I am on. As for the last line in that quote I don't think that contributes anything to the discussion and is unnecessary. This is pointless to include.

 

4 hours ago, Yobo said:

I understand your point in this but you need too understand how much effort we have put into these departments behind the scenes, How much effort SMT have put into it. How much hours of training and SOP writing just to be merged and then have arguments of how we are doing things. I strongly disagree. 

State has their way of doing things and has a close family bond.
Same as the other departments. 

The original Poster needs to perhaps refine his suggestion as it isn't really that clear, this would be an issue if there was a merger which I don't think would be appropriate given the reasons listed above in this quote. As for the family bond, that can happen with any department with good leadership. 

4 hours ago, Yobo said:

So when we rock up too situations we all deal with it how we know. And it works. I don't see what the argument is? We barely have Alot of TAC on most the time. And when we do its because of Mass Crime. 

Simply because there aren't a lot of TAC on most of the time doesn't really work. Timezones as you are certainly aware of will play havoc on people's activity. However, when there are 5 tactical units: CERT (For arguments sake), SWAT, SRT, ARU, Delta Squad, and a few "Secondary Tactical Units" that patrol. While its difficult to get a total count of members due to certain groups having private rosters, you could consider the low amount of members being correlated to the sheer amount of competing units. They also get on for meetings as well.

4 hours ago, Yobo said:

And before YOU say that "oh goverment are so overpowerd with all the tac teams we cant kill them" I can give you hours upon hours of videos that show me and two others getting rekd by a Negev... 

What benefit will this have?

I beleive this descion should come from High Command Circle like we have been discusing in our High Command chat. After all. You wouldnt understand what Blitzon, Mikey, Livebait, Andrew, Eternity, Hunt, Freeze, Ronin, Ecott, Calamity and Myself have gone through too get our department where they are today..

The suggestion isn't to nerf Tactical Units. Its broadly stating that there are too many Tactical Units that inhibit any roleplay focused departments. An example of this could be BSI. Personally I think the issue was with the command members of that department. 

I personally doubt the objectivity of each person there especially if for theory's sake, their department was being hypothetically considered for removal. However, that's my opinion

Edited February 1, 2020 by th3
Much Love

[Ecott]

- Support

There would be many issues for this If This Were To happen Being:

1. 1. Who's ever Departments would be taken out wouldn't be happy About It, (Not Just saying this for myself but for other departments in General as well etc)
2. 2. Each Department have their own unique skills that they have and enjoy and seeing them merch into one might be difficult or might not work.
3. 3. Peoples ranks in Their Departments are not all the same going by the rank systems they are using in their departments.
4. 4. People might not want to leave/transfer to the other department if this Suddgestion of a "MERGE" was to happen and there would be issues of people getting their current old ranks from their previous department into the New/Merged department and if that were to happen and if the choices were made by high command for the people to get their ranks, some people may or may not get their old rank they had previously from the other department and this could cause issues/problems if this to were to ever happen.

Edited February 1, 2020 by Ecott

[Sion]

+support  I get it ment to be 'semi-realistic' but if we have more tac units than standard officer there is  a big issue. Everyone have become glued to the idea of shooting. No negotiating/wait it out. It just shooting here and there

[Eternity]

I think we need to remove families altogether then issue solved 

[𝙁𝙧𝙚𝙚𝙯𝙚]

2 hours ago, Ecott said:

- Support

There would be many issues for this If This Were To happen Being:

1. 1. Who's ever Departments would be taken out wouldn't be happy About It, (Not Just saying this for myself but for other departments in General as well etc)
2. 2. Each Department have their own unique skills that they have and enjoy and seeing them merch into one might be difficult or might not work.
3. 3. Peoples ranks in Their Departments are not all the same going by the rank systems they are using in their departments.
4. 4. People might not want to leave/transfer to the other department if this Suddgestion of a "MERGE" was to happen and there would be issues of people getting their current old ranks from their previous department into the New/Merged department and if that were to happen and if the choices were made by high command for the people to get their ranks, some people may or may not get their old rank they had previously from the other department and this could cause issues/problems if this to were to ever happen.

 

- Support

I see where the frustation comes from, and I share them. But I think it would cause more issues then its needed to be.

Look when SRT was merged into SWAT, the amount of bullshit that brought for 1 department  was insane. Let alone when we do it with 2 or 3. Everything any department heads have worked on for the last years, down the drain.

And yes I do believe that there are to many tac units but I dont know whether merging them is the best option.

And the problem with this post is that you only make a statement.

Huge important stuff like this needs to be planned months ahead and this post only names problems and not solutions or n actual steady plan. 

And the same for every + Support people make. Everybody finally gets their opinions out of them and put them here but dont think it through. Only stating concerns and not n actual plan of how it should work.

- Freeze

Edited February 1, 2020 by Freeze