Dark-False Warn Report- Denied

[ap3322]

 

Your In-game: James M

Your SteamID: STEAM_0:0:143458328

 

The admin's name in-game: SPRT TL Dark 1RL99

 

The admin's steam name (If you know it): [GL] Dark

 

What warning did you receive: NCWS

 

Evidence of the warn (REQUIRED): 

(not sure why this top one doesn't have the reason stated but below I put another image from the gaminglight website)

 

 

Why do you think this warn was false: The situation happened during a bank robbery with a hostage. I was robbing the bank with 2 other criminals and one hostage. I don't remember the hostages name but one of the people robbing the bank with me was named EpixLavaGuy101. I started the bank robbery like normal by adverting and clicking on the crate and waited there by the crate with the hostage in front of me at gunpoint and the 2 other robbers in front of me on the left and right. We waited like this until a hostage negotiator arrived. The negotiator who arrived was Dark. Once the negotiator arrived I moved up with the hostage in front of me to get within voice chat range of the negotiator and the 2 other robbers moved up a bit as well. Once I got within voice range I began to RP the negotiations starting by introducing my self saying something like "Sir I'm James we don't want anyone to get hurt..." when the negotiator interrupted me saying, "If you don't move closer you're going to get awped in the face" I was like wow ok sir calm down and he repeated saying he will snipe me if I don't step up. I tell the hostage to start walking forward a bit and stayed right behind him with a gun touching his head. We moved forward until we passed the staircase by the vault door by a couple feet and stopped, the other robbers with me were both still in front of me and the hostage. Dark continued to shout at us and said that he was telling us as an admin that we need to move up. We told him that we did move up and he still continued to tell us to move up more. I nudged the hostage a few steps closer since Dark still told us to do so and stopped around 4-5 body lengths from where Dark was standing in the vault door. I estimate this because dark was standing on the door, one of the robbers with me was a step back from him inside the vault, the other robber, EpixLavaGuy101, was another step back from him on the other side of the vault, and the hostage and I were standing right by EpixLavaGuy101. I was standing directly behind the hostage as one normally does during the negotiations. We were also in text chat range as I could tell this when typing in the chat I saw Dark's name. At this point Dark was still telling us to move forward so I asked him why and if we were breaking any rules and he didn't explain he just kept saying to move up. I had read the motd for hostage negotiations and bank robberies and was sure I wasn't breaking any rules.  The other robbers who were with me were lower level and they were getting confused as well and started asking Dark what we were doing wrong. While this was happening I saw in chat that I was warned by Dark for NCWS. All the other robbers in the room saw this in chat and we started asking Dark why I was warned when Dark said something over the radio and a bunch of Tac units came from around the vault door corner and killed us all. I talked to Cammy after and explained the situation and he told me about appealing on the forums. I thank him for listening even if there was nothing he could do. There are a couple reasons why I think this warn is false. I do not think that I was breaking any rules, the motd says that when there are 4 criminals or less negotiations are to be done at the bank vault door. Even though my body wasn't all the way touching the vault the motd doesn't say that is has to and the negotiations were still taking place at the vault door within not only voice range but local text chat range and only a few feet away from the door. It feels like dark was trying to get us closer to the door so that the Tac units around the corner could shoot us which seems unfair like using staff powers off duty for an rp advantage. Another reason is that not only was Dark off duty when issuing this warn, he was the negotiator talking to us and issuing the warn directly to us as the negotiator for commands we were not following from the negotiator. This is effectively taking his own sit and is a huge conflict of interest. If Dark really thought we were breaking a rule he should have made a staff sit against us or asked for help in admin chat. If an uninvolved and unbiased on duty staff member came in and saw the situation and they thought were were doing something wrong and told us to move again even closer, then of course I would have followed their directions without hesitation but in this case Dark decided to take his own sit against me off duty.

 

Edit: (I added this in a comment down below but I feel like its important enough to add on to the main post here.)
I forgot to mention something very important, Dark is only Admin not a Senior admin and as stated in the rule is, "Required to be on the Administration job to use any staffing powers or administrate a sit, with the exception of warning for obvious rule infractions that do not require a sit (Intentional LTAP/RDA, NLR)." It is up to whoever accepts or denies this post to interpret this but in my opinion not being close enough to the vault door during a robbery when the motd does not state a specific distance and I was within clear voice and text chat range does not fall under the off duty exception of "Obvious rule infractions that do not require a sit (Intentional LTAP/RDA, NLR)."

 

Edit 2: 
While a video would obviously be helpful there is not much disagreement about the exact facts between dark and I other than details such as how far away I was from the door so the basic facts of what happened remain. As per the staff handbook, admins must be on duty “with the exception of warning for obvious rule infractions that do not require a sit (Intentional LTAP/RDA, NLR).” I do not believe that this situation fits this exception. This situation required a sit. If admins could warn off duty for ncws for any minor thing that is not even stated in the motd, or for criminals not following their orders, they could just have unlimited power over criminals to force them to do whatever they want bypassing any rp. Even if a criminal is not breaking any rule in the motd an off duty admin on gov could tell them in character to do something, and when the criminal doesn’t comply, (because they don’t have to) they could just say “out of character real quick, do this now” and then if the criminal doesn’t do it they can warn them for ncws. This is what happened in this situation. I had already move up multiple times for dark, and his continued requests felt like an abuse of power to bypass rp and give an rp advantage to his character in the tactical situation. This is why I stopped after moving up the final time and asked him why we had to keep moving up yet he did not answer and simply warned me. This would set a dangerous precedent giving admins unlimited exploitable power over other players in game.

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by ap3322
Added section at end under "Edit:"

[00 𝓓𝓪𝓻𝓴 00]

-Support

The Hostage taker was behind the stairs in the bank vault and I asked you multiple times to come to the door or i'll warn you and I even said "As and Admin, Out of RP, Come to the door so we can do negotiations" after you refusing to comply multiple times I warned you. After the warn was completed you came up about 2 squares from the door. If you would of moved up so we could do negotiations I wouldn't have warned you. Next time just listen to what an admin tell you when they specifically tells you that they are going to warn you if you don't.

[00 𝓓𝓪𝓻𝓴 00]

10 minutes ago, [GL] Dark said:

-Support

The Hostage taker was behind the stairs in the bank vault and I asked you multiple times to come to the door or i'll warn you and I even said "As and Admin, Out of RP, Come to the door so we can do negotiations" after you refusing to comply multiple times I warned you. After the warn was completed you came up about 2 squares from the door. If you would of moved up so we could do negotiations I wouldn't have warned you. Next time just listen to what an admin tell you when they specifically tells you that they are going to warn you if you don't.

Also, I had a clip but I deleted it as this is a few weeks old

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by [GL] Dark

[ap3322]

1 hour ago, [GL] Dark said:

-Support

The Hostage taker was behind the stairs in the bank vault and I asked you multiple times to come to the door or i'll warn you and I even said "As and Admin, Out of RP, Come to the door so we can do negotiations" after you refusing to comply multiple times I warned you. After the warn was completed you came up about 2 squares from the door. If you would of moved up so we could do negotiations I wouldn't have warned you. Next time just listen to what an admin tell you when they specifically tells you that they are going to warn you if you don't.

 

1 hour ago, [GL] Dark said:

Also, I had a clip but I deleted it as this is a few weeks old

 

I asked you for a clip after it happened when I was talking to Cammy and you said that your medal wasn't on so you didn't have one. We moved up multiple times per your request before the warn and you continued to tell us to move forward. The other criminals and I were asking you why we still needed to keep moving forward even though we did multiple times and we were not breaking any rules and you did not answer our questions. The situation was very stressful as you were aggressive and yelling at us the whole time while the other criminals were asking you what was wrong while I was also trying to communicate with the hostage when to move up and to you asking what was going on so it was very difficult to hear what everybody was saying. Regardless, it is still taking your own sit which is not allowed.

Edit: I forgot to mention something very important, Dark is only Admin not a Senior admin and as stated in the rule is, "Required to be on the Administration job to use any staffing powers or administrate a sit, with the exception of warning for obvious rule infractions that do not require a sit (Intentional LTAP/RDA, NLR)." It is up to whoever accepts or denies this post to interpret this but in my opinion not being close enough to the vault door during a robbery when the motd does not state a specific distance and I was within clear voice and text chat range does not fall under the off duty exception of "Obvious rule infractions that do not require a sit (Intentional LTAP/RDA, NLR)."

Edited April 23, 2021 by ap3322

[EpixLavaGuy101]

i was there for the scenario and james was at the door by the time you warned him, he was in text chat range and yet you ignored that. a better thing to do would've been to talk to him about a rule he didnt know instead of warn him and ruin his day

 

[~𝓢𝓞𝓤𝓛~]

4 hours ago, [GL] Dark said:

-Support

The Hostage taker was behind the stairs in the bank vault and I asked you multiple times to come to the door or i'll warn you and I even said "As and Admin, Out of RP, Come to the door so we can do negotiations" after you refusing to comply multiple times I warned you. After the warn was completed you came up about 2 squares from the door. If you would of moved up so we could do negotiations I wouldn't have warned you. Next time just listen to what an admin tell you when they specifically tells you that they are going to warn you if you don't.

 

[00 𝓓𝓪𝓻𝓴 00]

3 hours ago, ap3322 said:

 

I asked you for a clip after it happened when I was talking to Cammy and you said that your medal wasn't on so you didn't have one. We moved up multiple times per your request before the warn and you continued to tell us to move forward. The other criminals and I were asking you why we still needed to keep moving forward even though we did multiple times and we were not breaking any rules and you did not answer our questions. The situation was very stressful as you were aggressive and yelling at us the whole time while the other criminals were asking you what was wrong while I was also trying to communicate with the hostage when to move up and to you asking what was going on so it was very difficult to hear what everybody was saying. Regardless, it is still taking your own sit which is not allowed.

Edit: I forgot to mention something very important, Dark is only Admin not a Senior admin and as stated in the rule is, "Required to be on the Administration job to use any staffing powers or administrate a sit, with the exception of warning for obvious rule infractions that do not require a sit (Intentional LTAP/RDA, NLR)." It is up to whoever accepts or denies this post to interpret this but in my opinion not being close enough to the vault door during a robbery when the motd does not state a specific distance and I was within clear voice and text chat range does not fall under the off duty exception of "Obvious rule infractions that do not require a sit (Intentional LTAP/RDA, NLR)."

Very possible that my medal wasn't on i don't remember that well this was weeks ago. And for your edit I can warn offduty as I clearly said in VC and Chat as staff come to the front or i will warn you. When the VC is going in and out that means your too far. For context, i've given 79 warns since this one I cant remember warns at 100% from 2-3 weeks ago.

Edited April 23, 2021 by [GL] Dark

[ap3322]

6 hours ago, [GL] Dark said:

Very possible that my medal wasn't on i don't remember that well this was weeks ago. And for your edit I can warn offduty as I clearly said in VC and Chat as staff come to the front or i will warn you. When the VC is going in and out that means your too far. For context, i've given 79 warns since this one I cant remember warns at 100% from 2-3 weeks ago.

Agree to disagree then. As EpixLavaGuy101 said I was past the stairs close to the door when you gave me the warn I was only back behind the stairs when you first came in. If you could warn crim for ncws off duty on gov as a regular admin for them not following your orders when no rules are even being broken just to get them closer and easier to kill the entire game would be corrupt. I do not believe this falls under the "Obvious rule infractions that do not require a sit (Intentional LTAP/RDA, NLR)." exception for admin warning off duty as I was not breaking any rules intentionally and it is debatable if I was breaking any rules at all there should have been a sit from an uninvolved admin. The moment you warned me I was in the middle of repeatedly asking you what I was doing wrong as I had already moved up several times per your request yet you did not answer me.

[PapiJack]

-Support
btw your allowed to warn off duty as admin

[Phil]

-support 

Due to lack of any video evidence of the situation to prove that this warn was false, as for being warned while he was off the staff job all Admin+ can warn off duty

[Mewy Minge]

14 hours ago, [GL] Dark said:

-Support

The Hostage taker was behind the stairs in the bank vault and I asked you multiple times to come to the door or i'll warn you and I even said "As and Admin, Out of RP, Come to the door so we can do negotiations" after you refusing to comply multiple times I warned you. After the warn was completed you came up about 2 squares from the door. If you would of moved up so we could do negotiations I wouldn't have warned you. Next time just listen to what an admin tell you when they specifically tells you that they are going to warn you if you don't.

-kinda iffy with this.. come to the door or I'll warn you seems a  bit abusive  and sounds like your  using your power to get an Roleplay advantage,   I don't Really see anything what is fail rp here or why the warn was needed +support Not Really Much Proof  on the others party 

Edited April 23, 2021 by The Iron Rabbit

[hanxiii]

13 hours ago, ap3322 said:

 

I asked you for a clip after it happened when I was talking to Cammy and you said that your medal wasn't on so you didn't have one. We moved up multiple times per your request before the warn and you continued to tell us to move forward. The other criminals and I were asking you why we still needed to keep moving forward even though we did multiple times and we were not breaking any rules and you did not answer our questions. The situation was very stressful as you were aggressive and yelling at us the whole time while the other criminals were asking you what was wrong while I was also trying to communicate with the hostage when to move up and to you asking what was going on so it was very difficult to hear what everybody was saying. Regardless, it is still taking your own sit which is not allowed.

Edit: I forgot to mention something very important, Dark is only Admin not a Senior admin and as stated in the rule is, "Required to be on the Administration job to use any staffing powers or administrate a sit, with the exception of warning for obvious rule infractions that do not require a sit (Intentional LTAP/RDA, NLR)." It is up to whoever accepts or denies this post to interpret this but in my opinion not being close enough to the vault door during a robbery when the motd does not state a specific distance and I was within clear voice and text chat range does not fall under the off duty exception of "Obvious rule infractions that do not require a sit (Intentional LTAP/RDA, NLR)."

hes allowed to warn off duty
-support, lack of video evidence that this happend
you stated that he declared himself as an admin telling you to do it, and you didnt listen to him, that is an obvious rule infraction as you plainly just disobeyed him. None the less there's no video.

Edited April 23, 2021 by hanxiii

[Pvp_Savage6767]

-support 

admins can warn off dutg

also

reasons  above 

lack of evidence to prove your case

Duty not dutg (typo)

Edited April 23, 2021 by Pvp_Savage6767

[Mag1c]

5 hours ago, Phil said:

-support 

Due to lack of any video evidence of the situation to prove that this warn was false, as for being warned while he was off the staff job all Admin+ can warn off duty

I agree with Phil here, Dark can warn you for breaking rules even when he is offduty.

[Chief_]

Hey ya’ll forum dip here. Lets just keep to +/- supports or posts will be hidden and this may be locked. 

[yh]

6 hours ago, Phil said:

-support 

Due to lack of any video evidence of the situation to prove that this warn was false, as for being warned while he was off the staff job all Admin+ can warn off duty

 

[MRivers]

6 hours ago, hanxiii said:

hes allowed to warn off duty
-support, lack of video evidence that this happend
you stated that he declared himself as an admin telling you to do it, and you didnt listen to him, that is an obvious rule infraction as you plainly just disobeyed him. None the less there's no video.

 

[John Newsom]

-Support

Reasons Above

[Beelzebub]

- Support

-Is a valid warn

-He can warn off duty

-No evidence to disprove the warn

[Jimmy James]

Denied