Daniels's Warn appeal (yes another one)

[Rito]

Your In-game Name: S4phir (At that time, my name was: AFK for yes)

Your SteamID: STEAM_0:1:18911826

The admin's name in-game: Guinea

What warning did you receive: Fail RP (Warning was wrongly formated, it only says Fail RP)

When did you receive this warning: 12/02/2020 

Why do you think this warn was false: So, to start off, I received the warning because I have had killed a Security enlisted and a Jr researcher with a Desert Eagle, while they tought I was stripped. But the Security enlisted only did: /me strips AFK for  yes, while I was in cuffs. Which according to the retired Senior Admin Zeus, isn't actually valid, because he did not specify what he had stripped. Which means that in RP I would of had still kept my Weapons. 

Evidence the warning is false:

Any extra information: N/A, I believe this is enough to prove that I wasn't in the wrong here. If you want a proof that at this time my name was AFK for yes, I can take another screenshot of the RP name change logs, but I believe this would just be a waste of time as this is a day old. Also, I don't know if I missed it or not, but I have not seen anywhere in the MOTD talking about stripping. I know this a common practice and we do that a lot on the server, but is there an actual rule about it or did I missed it? If there isn't any rules about it, I'll make a suggestion to add one, since this is commonly used on the server.

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by vSquishyv

[[GL] Zeus]

+Support

The strip had no reason and didn’t specify what was being stripped aka a blanket action which would leave room for speculation on what they can strip and what has been stripped, therefore it wouldn’t be considered an invalid /me as it’s a blanket which can kinda be compared to blanket thermals binds, ie the exact things being stripped or the exact reason not being specified. 

[Comrade Boekhom]

27 minutes ago, [GL] Zeus said:

+Support

The strip had no reason and didn’t specify what was being stripped aka a blanket action which would leave room for speculation on what they can strip and what has been stripped, therefore it wouldn’t be considered an invalid /me as it’s a blanket which can kinda be compared to blanket thermals binds, ie the exact things being stripped or the exact reason not being specified. 

 

[[GL] Fizz-y Soda]

15 hours ago, [GL] Zeus said:

+Support

The strip had no reason and didn’t specify what was being stripped aka a blanket action which would leave room for speculation on what they can strip and what has been stripped, therefore it wouldn’t be considered an invalid /me as it’s a blanket which can kinda be compared to blanket thermals binds, ie the exact things being stripped or the exact reason not being specified. 

Imagine saying "Thermals (Yes)"

+Support

Edited December 4, 2020 by [GL] Fizz-y Soda

[Rookieblue]

Were you still in cuffs when you shot them?

[Rito]

6 minutes ago, Rookieblue said:

Were you still in cuffs when you shot them?

No, we were in a 173 test and the researcher ordered the Security to strip the Class Ds, but when came my turn he only did /me strips. and did not specify what he had stripped. After that they sent us in the Containment chamber, uncuffed a Class D then ordered him to uncuff the other Class Ds. When the test was done, they tried to get a D-Class out one by one, so when they oppened the Containment chamber, I ran out (Uncuffed) took out my deagle and killed the Security and the Researcher. I was not cuffed when I killed them nor were my weapons stripped.

[Crystal]

+Support

[Orange 🍊]

+Support

Needs to specify 

[Jack S]

42 minutes ago, Orange said:

+Support

Needs to specify 

 

[Frog]

3 hours ago, [GL] Zeus said:

+Support

The strip had no reason and didn’t specify what was being stripped aka a blanket action which would leave room for speculation on what they can strip and what has been stripped, therefore it wouldn’t be considered an invalid /me as it’s a blanket which can kinda be compared to blanket thermals binds, ie the exact things being stripped or the exact reason not being specified. 

 

[Kodaㅤ]

3 hours ago, [GL] Zeus said:

+Support

The strip had no reason and didn’t specify what was being stripped aka a blanket action which would leave room for speculation on what they can strip and what has been stripped, therefore it wouldn’t be considered an invalid /me as it’s a blanket which can kinda be compared to blanket thermals binds, ie the exact things being stripped or the exact reason not being specified. 

 

[Rookieblue]

Was a roll off conducted as part of the strip action?

[Kami- Amaterasu]

2 hours ago, Rookieblue said:

Was a roll off conducted as part of the strip action?

I'm pretty sure he was in cuffs when they did he stripping. ITs just a matter that hey didnt say what they strippe off of him.

+Support, no reason specified on what they stripped

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Kami- Amaterasu

[Phillers]

-Support. He stripped you, even if he didn't specify what exactly he stripped you for that should still be enough. 
Good heavens if this is the way we enforce it how specific do we need to make strips? CI/MTF would have to make whole damn trainings on making sure to strip everything that one can possibly concieve to be on a person.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Phillers
Spelling

[[GL] Zeus]

59 minutes ago, Phillers said:

-Support. He stripped you, even if he didn't specify what exactly he stripped you for that should still be enough. 
Good heavens if this is the way we enforce it how specific do we need to make strips? CI/MTF would have to make whole damn trainings on making sure to strip everything that one can possibly concieve to be on a person.

The things you really need in a strip bind are comms, weapons and suicide agents which most people usually already have a bind for. The reason I said this is cause if nothing is mentioned it’s exactly like the thermals argument, it’s a blanket statement/reason which doesn’t make sense. This would beg the question of what exactly did they strip. Which is again like the thermals, a reason has to be specified instead of just saying thermals, here what has been stripped has to specified. 

Sorry for the double post, just had to point it out.

[Mung Daal]

@Guinea Pig
Suprised noone has done it yet.

[Guinea Pig]

Walter, I’m aware that this report exists. But there’s simply nothing for me to really say. Everything he said is technically true to the sit. Yes I did warn him because I thought that you didn’t need a bracket bind for stripping for just weapons . I admit I may have been in the wrong but I did thought I was in the right for me to warn him.

+/- Support, though most of the feedback has supported Daniels, some counter feedback is still fighting so I’m not 100% sure who is right. Will change it when it has proven that I was in the wrong.

6 hours ago, Rookieblue said:

Was a roll off conducted as part of the strip action?

Also there was no roll do to him being cuffed.

[Sixx]

5 hours ago, [GL] Zeus said:

The things you really need in a strip bind are comms, weapons and suicide agents which most people usually already have a bind for. The reason I said this is cause if nothing is mentioned it’s exactly like the thermals argument, it’s a blanket statement/reason which doesn’t make sense. This would beg the question of what exactly did they strip. Which is again like the thermals, a reason has to be specified instead of just saying thermals, here what has been stripped has to specified. 

+Support

[Rito]

I have re-read, the MOTD  in the Roll guidelines/RP rules section, unless the strips rules are somewhere else, there is nothing mentionned about it. And also, we did not had to roll against each other because I was cuffed when he "stripped" me.

Edited December 4, 2020 by vSquishyv

[Rookieblue]

@vSquishyv There are no warnings associated with the Steam ID you provided.

[Rito]

?? I may have provided the wrong steam ID somehow, let me grab it real quick

Here, STEAM_0:1:189118265

[Rookieblue]

APPROVED

Upon review of the evidence and testimony provided, this appeal is being approved. The core issue in this instance is whether someone needs to specify what they're searching for when attempting to strip someone who has been captured. Some people have drawn a connection between stripping and calling thermals, however that connection is not compelling. A specific reason for thermals is required because it has a significant impact on the overall gameplay across multiple classes and branches. There have been multiple issues with thermals being called without proper reasoning, which has resulted in those rules. However, stripping is an extremely common task that everyone knows what they're looking for. If someone engages in stripping an opposing player, it's commonly understood that they're stripping weapons, communication equipment, and suicide agents. I do not believe it to be necessary to specifically articulate what you're looking for in a strip.

The second core issue here is whether a roll off would've been necessary. In general, most opposing RP actions must be rolled out to give both sides an equal chance of succeeding or failing in the attempt. This is to reduce powergaming, and provide a better roleplaying experience overall. The D-Class in question was cuffed at the time of being stripped, however the rule set at the time laid out that only personnel with their hands up are prevented from conducting rolls. As such, a roll off should've been conducted between the GENSEC officer and the D-Class. As a roll off was not conducted, the D-Class would've still maintained possession of his firearm.

Based on the above conclusions, the warning has been removed from your record. No further action is needed on your part.