Server Health rework

[Clarence]

What do you want to see?: I would like to see a complete server health rework.

Why should we add it?: The server health has became way to high with gear and the skill machine. I think lowering all jobs base HP will make combat more realistic. We shouldnt have to shoot people 30-40 times to kill them. If we decrease all jobs base HP it would make combat take actual skill and players would actually have to think and plan during combat no more just running through blaster fire without a care in the world.

What are the advantages of having this?:  The advantages of doing this would, make the server more realistic, I dont think any players should be walking around with 1500+hp. It would make a actual skill gap with PvP and introduce actual skill based fighting. I know this would be a lot of work with having to rework all jobs HP and reworking weapons but I think the server could use this. 

Who is it mainly for?: The whole server

Links to any content:  N/A

How it works: N/A

Edited May 11 by Clarence
Typo

[Glorbnob]

-1 Support. This is would be a much larger scale fix then I think you realize, For the most part everything is relatively balanced where it stands, The areas it starts to get crazy is with Lore characters, Models with Damage Reduction, and Custom Classes. Weapons would also have to be gone through to rebalance to match the health or else you are going to have very short boring one sided fights where the person who attacks will win 100% of the time due to now needing to use a fraction of the shots. The best way to go about this would be targeting the jobs with the most unfair amounts of health which would be Lore Inquisitorious, Inquisitorious Custom Classes(Especially the ones who paid for extra health 4.5k health on a CC is crazy) And fixing Damage reduction on all models including Field Commander and DT Seeker Company. I am pretty sure CC's would be untouchable due to the fact they simply go for a lot of money but if you want to talk about balancing health that is where you need to start. Not to mention Lightsaber damage would also then need to be added since with less health you are heading into 1-2 shot territory with lightsabers which is insanely op considering they can get access to force abilities such as Force Slow which completely stops all movements and allows you to drop your enemies like a hot sack of potatos. As someone who tends to engage in more PVP on the server then almost anyone else I feel I can give an expert opinion on the balancing of Imperial Classes. The only classes I noticed have a clear unfair amount of health compared to the damage output they do are the following: DT Sentry Droid, DT Seeker Company(Due to Damage Reduction on the model) DarkTrooper(GM Class) Lore Inquisitorious, Emperor, Vader, Grand IQ, High IQ, Certain Custom Classes(Obviously certain classes are meant to have higher amount of HP to represent the power they hold in lore, a group of Pyke raiding the ISD and running into any Grand IQ+ will promptly cause them to scream like children because they know they fucked up and will die a horrible painful death at the hands of the true sith lords. Other then that PVP is relatively balanced. If the goal here is to balance PVP target the people with 2k+ health or else you risk losing progression on the server. If Custom Classes are untouchable in this HP rework then this entire rework is completely useless as it just makes them more powerful while taking away any chance besides a 50/50 T4 shot to kill them. If Custom Classes can't be reworked then beyond mega - Support. 

[Rasputin]

I wholeheartedly agree with this, however, how would CCs work? Like they paid for the health boost. 

[Clarence]

The best thing I can say about CC's would be to find a good HP rescale that matches the new health to make sure people who bought CC's still get their moneys worth

[Reeses]

-Support

I think health and everything is fine where it is tbh. Gear is a thing not many people have and it takes a commitment and even then the boosts to health or armor are not as big as you think. As for Lore characters they are important to the story of StarWars as a whole and are powerful by standard to be in the position they are. If anything only Pyke and Event Characters eve have to deal with combating Lore people and Event characters have 2-3 times the health of a lore job sometimes.

So in the end TL:DR I don't think this change is needed but maybe we could buff all guns or something to make it more fair. But for me I don't it would be a good change.

Edited May 11 by Reeses

[Stage]

+/- Support
I think something like this is needed direly, it's stupid for people to be walking around with upwards of 3k HP. However, such a change would require so many changes to the server that it may end up being too big and end up changing how the entire server feels to play. Things like gun stats, CCs, NPCs, lightsabers, lightsaber powers, and who knows what else would all require changes to make this possible. If things were handled similarly to how SCPRP does things then I think it could be beneficial because the combat on that server isn't all that bad.

Edited May 11 by Stage

[ejharvey813]

-1 Support. This is would be a much larger scale fix then I think you realize, For the most part everything is relatively balanced where it stands, The areas it starts to get crazy is with Lore characters, Models with Damage Reduction, and Custom Classes. Weapons would also have to be gone through to rebalance to match the health or else you are going to have very short boring one sided fights where the person who attacks will win 100% of the time due to now needing to use a fraction of the shots. The best way to go about this would be targeting the jobs with the most unfair amounts of health which would be Lore Inquisitorious, Inquisitorious Custom Classes(Especially the ones who paid for extra health 4.5k health on a CC is crazy) And fixing Damage reduction on all models including Field Commander and DT Seeker Company. I am pretty sure CC's would be untouchable due to the fact they simply go for a lot of money but if you want to talk about balancing health that is where you need to start. Not to mention Lightsaber damage would also then need to be added since with less health you are heading into 1-2 shot territory with lightsabers which is insanely op considering they can get access to force abilities such as Force Slow which completely stops all movements and allows you to drop your enemies like a hot sack of potatos. As someone who tends to engage in more PVP on the server then almost anyone else I feel I can give an expert opinion on the balancing of Imperial Classes. The only classes I noticed have a clear unfair amount of health compared to the damage output they do are the following: DT Sentry Droid, DT Seeker Company(Due to Damage Reduction on the model) DarkTrooper(GM Class) Lore Inquisitorious, Emperor, Vader, Grand IQ, High IQ, Certain Custom Classes(Obviously certain classes are meant to have higher amount of HP to represent the power they hold in lore, a group of Pyke raiding the ISD and running into any Grand IQ+ will promptly cause them to scream like children because they know they fucked up and will die a horrible painful death at the hands of the true sith lords. Other then that PVP is relatively balanced. If the goal here is to balance PVP target the people with 2k+ health or else you risk losing progression on the server. If Custom Classes are untouchable in this HP rework then this entire rework is completely useless as it just makes them more powerful while taking away any chance besides a 50/50 T4 shot to kill them. If Custom Classes can't be reworked then beyond mega - Support. 

[resin]

+support
first of all I would like to say obviously it would be alot of work to implement and balance all the weapons but In the servers current state HP and armor values are way to inflated

[Noshow]

+ Support
This would be a change that is very needed, fights last 45-55 Seconds even if you hit all your shots unless your gun does 60+ Damage and tons of Bullets. NPCs are terrible against people unless they have the 300 Damage Sniper Rifle you can give to NPCs and NPCs are the main source of Action for Events.  For the CCs I think is every job was divided by the same number and then the Health Addition were as well they would still hold the same HP Advantage over jobs just at a Lower Scale. This would also help with the Event Lightsabers, CC Lightsabers as they do almost no damage to people with more than 1k HP.

[Gideon Hask Shadow]

-Support

I think health and everything is fine where it is tbh. Gear is a thing not many people have and it takes a commitment and even then the boosts to health or armor are not as big as you think. As for Lore characters they are important to the story of StarWars as a whole and are powerful by standard to be in the position they are. If anything only Pyke and Event Characters eve have to deal with combating Lore people and Event characters have 2-3 times the health of a lore job sometimes.

So in the end TL:DR I don't think this change is needed but maybe we could buff all guns or something to make it more fair. But for me I don't it would be a good change.

[skelel]

+support people with no armor on their models have lots of hp and i dont like that it takes 30 years to kill them

[RustyScythe]

+ Support

although this would be a huge change and may take awhile I think its something the server needs badly as someone who takes pride in pvping i can say for sure that the health and gun damage within the server is so inflated that it doesn't even make sense anymore why should anyone take 50 rounds to kill why should a 1v1 head on without thought take so long and be the main form of pvp? The CC issue would be a bit difficult but simple at the same time the health would scale down just like any other persons hp but still high enough to were its still above the rest. An hp and armor change would also add more fun to the server by making it were you have to plan out going against nps instead of just gunning them down without a second thought it would make it to were you have to pay attention to the rebels hell some times you are able just to walk by a rebel spawner just because you have enough hp and armor to do it.

[Katsimaru]

+Support

I agree I do think the health system is a bit inflated.

Edited May 16 by Katsimaru

[Cool Guy Antonoff]

+ Support

The server has crazy inflated health.

[Rudolph]

+/- Support

I think something like this is needed direly, it's stupid for people to be walking around with upwards of 3k HP. However, such a change would require so many changes to the server that it may end up being too big and end up changing how the entire server feels to play. Things like gun stats, CCs, NPCs, lightsabers, lightsaber powers, and who knows what else would all require changes to make this possible. If things were handled similarly to how SCPRP does things then I think it could be beneficial because the combat on that server isn't all that bad.

[Monarch]

+/- Support

The most endemic issue with health scaling is far and away that it has effectively entered an arms race to see who can brag about having the most hp, while hp can and reasonably should be an indication of status, some jobs have hyperinflated hp for seemingly no reason beyond status.

[Anomaly]

+/-Support leaning towards +Support

PROS: Ok so something like this is definitely sorely needed. CC's are way too overbearing at the current status with some upwards of 5K HP. Health and gun damage are heavily inflated. As NoShow stated NPC's are essentially useless against players with upwards of 1K+ HP. I think events and the server in general could benefit heavily from making events more difficult by reducing the HP of players. Doing this would bring skill based combat back into the server for PVP and PVE and make players have to be careful about what they do instead of just Call of Duty YOLOing in. Events and PVP are not based on skill but rather who has the most HP. Unless they miss every shot the CC with 3K HP is gonna beat the Normal trooper every time. In the same vein troopers can easily solo entire spawners with the massive damage reduction and 1K HP they can have. Doing this would bring back skill and tactics based combat into the server which is something that's been sorely missing for a long time. 

CONS: Ok so this would obviously be a MASSIVE change and would require a huge amount of work on the side of the Dev Team. It would require changes to every job and especially CC's since you would have to put a cap on how much HP they can buy to balance the server. Since they paid for their CC health im not sure if this would be an option? Guns, sabers, explosives and the like would all have to be rebalanced. Skill trees would need to be looked at and something like this could conceivably take months to accomplish. Is it doable? Probably but it would be so much work it may not be worth it in the end. 

Is something like this needed? Yes I do believe the server's health values and CC's are wayyy too OP and inflated but I think this may be a difficult thing to get done. I do think Glorbnob has the right idea here, the first thing that should be really looked at is CC's, most every other job is pretty balanced PVP wise so looking into CC's would be the #1 priority in seeing if this would work or not.

[Manio]

+Support for the lower TTK

Having to shoot someone that runs like the A-train is tedious enough, them having nearly 2k health on top is just too much to deal with. I'm not sure why people -support this due to "too much work", every suggestion requires some sort of work so let the actual devs worry about it. As far as I'm concerned all it takes is opening a lua file and changing ply:SetMaxHealth value for every job (would take an entire afternoon since there are a lot of jobs). An easier way would be removing the health skill tree from WOS lightsabers which could take an hour if the spaghetti code is giving some issues. Or if touching health itself is a big no-no, increase weapon damage (arguably this would take more time than lowering the default health of jobs themselves, but it would prevent people owning CCs from complaining about their health being reduced).

Final note - regarding CCs, lowering health globally by the same amount would mean it's fair for everyone.