omenGL Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 Your In-game Name: omen Your SteamID: STEAM_0:0:521103062 The admin's name in-game: Stolas What warning did you receive: RDM When did you receive this warning: today Please give a description of the situation that led to the warning: Ok so I'm sitting in dblock as a juggernaut doing my job and this dude on a CC comes up to the line. I'm using a longbow at the moment so the lighting and my POV is warped and certain parts are blocked by my scope. I'm zoomed in and the dclass pulls an axe out (which can do damage). I perceive it to be a gun instead, so I shoot him because from my perspective it looked just like a gun. He reports me for it and I get warned for it. Why do you think this warn was false: This warn is false I believe. I was doing my job and this could've all been avoided had the other party just understood that It was a perspective issue and that the Axe is KOS, due to it being capable of doing damage. I'd like to also state that the Axe does damage, even if it's only armor damage and deals just 1. It CAN do damage which means it is KOS, there is no specific line within the Security SOP or MOTD at all, stating that the axe isn't KOS. Another thing, due to the lighting already being bad enough as it is, and with my scope in the way, and me being on 52/0 at the time this happened. I kill the dclass for 2 valid reasons. Axe can be KOS, it's the security that decides if it is or not. Not the dclass. From my perspective, it looked just like a gun, skinned up, with the barrel, the handle, looking EXACTLY like a pistol. The beginning of the gun animation starts off with it being at your side so I shoot him the moment he pulls it out because of that. Evidence the warning is false: https://medal.tv/games/garrys-mod/clips/yiasqSXd-0MP6/d1337Qc64AB6?invite=cr-MSxueW8sODU4MzIzMTEs Security Sergeant Major | Juggernaut Enforcer Owner of A.H.I.R.D 'Atlas'juggernaut RP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrshafer Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 +Support The axe deals damage towards players Current Ranks Chaos Insurgency CMDR Jrshafer | Security 2LT | Assistant Chief of EMS Former Ranks! Former Alpha-1 Captain Former Physician Former Deputy Head of Security Armored Shield Former Member of the Community Blacklist Team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[GL] Fizz-y Soda Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 +support I still get shot at for pulling pickaxe. Even if it does 1 dmg. No different CI CMDR / CA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprink Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 3 minutes ago, Jrshafer said: +Support The axe deals damage towards players Deputy Head of Security | Executive Event Team | Admin | Forum Diplomat | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyClone Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 42 minutes ago, Jrshafer said: +Support The axe deals damage towards players would like to hear the other side to this Retried: CI LTCMDR CI R&D AIN, E11 CPT, and Research Assistant Manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Stolas Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 As I stated in the sit, you have several priors including 2 other RDM warns, something that helped shape my decision. Though you reacted very quickly, even with the short time allotted, a pistol would have raised at least half way to follow the proper animation for holding a gun. Additionally, to my knowledge and what I have heard from several security members, as well as situations I have been in with security, the axe is not KOS until used with the long range fence exploit. not if held, not if used on other D-class. only if used to whittle down security armor. It is an unwritten rule, and while it is true its not stated to not be KOS, its also not stated to be KOS either. Most security make the call to ignore it until used, or give warnings to put it away. This in mind, I acknowledge that the rule for what is and isn't KOS are a bit unclear, and I will advocate for the security SOP to be updated in accordance to the new ming SWE In any case, you are using "I thought it was a gun" as an excuse, which is not valid in my opinion, once again a conclusion I draw from your previous warns. "Well, actually, it was a lumber axe, so its OK" is also not a valid excuse, as you did not know that at the time, so you cannot just say the lumber axe makes it all right. It's the same as if he were to pull out the pickaxe, which does no damage, and is not KOS under any circumstance. That would still be RDM. What he actually pulled out doesn't matter, you failed to analyze the situation properly, you failed to have proper trigger discipline(using a sniper no less), and you killed a D-class without reason. You have stated several times you thought it was a gun when you pulled the trigger, a miscalculation on your part. Finally, the victim also did not see your excuses as valid, and did not forgive you. Had he done that, I would have simply given you a verbal, told you to be more careful when taking fire at D-class, and sent you both back. That did not happen however. I know as security you must always be on edge and ready for anything, but taking the proper time to step back and assess the situation is invaluable. A half seconds hesitation can mean the difference between a simple misunderstanding and an RDM sit. SCPRP: AHOME | Nu-7 Quartermaster | E11 Staff Sergent | Senior Medical Specialist | Experienced Marksman | Junior Combat Engineer | Rapid Response Team | Ranger | SWRP: Pyke Soldier I | ST SFC | Apprentice IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omenGL Posted August 26, 2022 Author Share Posted August 26, 2022 8 minutes ago, Lord Stolas said: its also not stated to be KOS either. so it's purely up to the security guard to make the call of whether it's KOS or not, gotcha Security Sergeant Major | Juggernaut Enforcer Owner of A.H.I.R.D 'Atlas'juggernaut RP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Stolas Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 2 minutes ago, omenGL said: so it's purely up to the security guard to make the call of whether it's KOS or not, gotcha No. If the general consensus is it's not KOS until used, its not KOS until used. When in Rome, do as the Romans. Still, this entire side of your argument is made false by this 14 minutes ago, Lord Stolas said: What he actually pulled out doesn't matter, you failed to analyze the situation properly, you failed to have proper trigger discipline(using a sniper no less SCPRP: AHOME | Nu-7 Quartermaster | E11 Staff Sergent | Senior Medical Specialist | Experienced Marksman | Junior Combat Engineer | Rapid Response Team | Ranger | SWRP: Pyke Soldier I | ST SFC | Apprentice IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omenGL Posted August 26, 2022 Author Share Posted August 26, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Lord Stolas said: No. If the general consensus is it's not KOS until used, its not KOS until used. When in Rome, do as the Romans. Still, this entire side of your argument is made false by this not written, not my problem. that leaves it to us to decide, the general consensus doesn't mean shit. juggernauts are required by SOP to not hesitate/show weakness. and RDM by definition is killing another player without RP reason, believing an axe is KOS when it isn't written down in the SOP, let alone perceiving it as a gun (have you even watched the clip, from a glance, do you genuinely believe that looks anything like an axe?), is not RDM in any sense. this is purely on you for judging the situation wrongly, and using a "general consensus" to determine a warn when its not even written down in any SOP or the MOTD whatsoever. the only thing ive found which is remotely close to being written down is this image notice how it says "Pickaxe"? Edited August 26, 2022 by omenGL Security Sergeant Major | Juggernaut Enforcer Owner of A.H.I.R.D 'Atlas'juggernaut RP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lafleur Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 6 hours ago, Jrshafer said: +Support The axe deals damage towards players SCP-RP: E-11 SSGT | EXM | CE | DoRCU | Senior Ranger Canadian | CI LCPL | JFTO | CQOP | Platinum PoliceRP: SNR Lafleur 1D45 | FBI Probatory Agent | DiamondRetired: Medical Supervisor | E-11 SM | Nu-7 SM | DHFTO | HTF Mark II | Security CPT | Warden Centurion | Senior Moderator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Stolas Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 7 minutes ago, omenGL said: that leaves it to us to decide, the general consensus doesn't mean shit. This sentence makes no sense 7 minutes ago, omenGL said: using a "general consensus" to determine a warn when its not even written down in any SOP or the MOTD whatsoever. This is literally what a rule is, it's people deciding collectively what is and is not allowed Also notice how it say rust weapons and pickaxe? The axe is a rust weapon SCPRP: AHOME | Nu-7 Quartermaster | E11 Staff Sergent | Senior Medical Specialist | Experienced Marksman | Junior Combat Engineer | Rapid Response Team | Ranger | SWRP: Pyke Soldier I | ST SFC | Apprentice IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nydekore Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 +Support RDM is killing without valid reason. This definition is loose and general for a reason, it can be interpreted as is needed. A dclass having an item that can be used as a weapon in a mass security facility is a valid reason to kill them, they’re prisoners and it is gensec’s job to keep it that way. The only exception is for when they’re in lower dblock and that’s really out of kindness towards AFK players, etc. Former: Deputy Head of Research | MTF Nu-7 Captain x2 | SCPRP Super Admin | MTF O-1 Major Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chineseman Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 +support I have always told to all the new gensec if you receive or got hit by the and you see that you get 1 armor remove they are full KOS And this warn is false CURRENT RANKS SCPRP: NoneRetired E-11 COL and EX GENSEC MAJ CHAD WITH GOLDENPAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PandaInShitpostLand Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 2 hours ago, Lord Stolas said: The axe is a rust weapon no it isnt. +Support The God Gamer of the Shitpost Squadron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Stolas Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 I give up, you're all missing the point. SCPRP: AHOME | Nu-7 Quartermaster | E11 Staff Sergent | Senior Medical Specialist | Experienced Marksman | Junior Combat Engineer | Rapid Response Team | Ranger | SWRP: Pyke Soldier I | ST SFC | Apprentice IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAmericanMan22 Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 From my personal experiences with things like this. I just verbally tell the person how the axe and pickaxe thing work. Everyone has been told that the axe and pickaxe are not KOS. The only exception for this was when a player with the axe uses it as a weapon or abuses the one fence glitch in dblock to hit a guard or player. I don't know if that was the case though and have also previously got into a sit with omen for something like this. But after watching the clip that was provided. I can see why he'd think that it was a gun and kill him and can also see why stolas would warn him. +support Going to support this, because it was an honest mistake, and everything matches up. 8 hours ago, Jrshafer said: +Support The axe deals damage towards players It's only KOS when it damages a player. Current: Owner of "Freedom Fighters" CC | Platnium Donator Rank | Professional Gun Lover | Certified American Former: SCP:RP Moderator | Security DHFTO 2LT American | MTF NU7 SM | Chaos Insurgency R&D AIN | Chaos Insurgency Military PVT | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizium Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 12 hours ago, Jrshafer said: +Support The axe deals damage towards players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItzGray Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 11 hours ago, Nydekore said: +Support RDM is killing without valid reason. This definition is loose and general for a reason, it can be interpreted as is needed. A dclass having an item that can be used as a weapon in a mass security facility is a valid reason to kill them, they’re prisoners and it is gensec’s job to keep it that way. The only exception is for when they’re in lower dblock and that’s really out of kindness towards AFK players, etc. Current: Former: | RRH Sierra 47 | | E11 LCPL | | MJ | | AR | | Gensec SM | | CI SFC | | CI IA | | M | | Nu7 DHFE Lieutenant Colonel | | HTF A4 Z Viper A4 | | AH1Z Viper | SCP-RP: | Former staff: 6/18/21 -> 11/18/21| | Staff 2x 2/26/22 -> 10/28/22 | | Joined: Apr, 2021~ | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yato Sensei Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 11 hours ago, Nydekore said: +Support RDM is killing without valid reason. This definition is loose and general for a reason, it can be interpreted as is needed. A dclass having an item that can be used as a weapon in a mass security facility is a valid reason to kill them, they’re prisoners and it is gensec’s job to keep it that way. The only exception is for when they’re in lower dblock and that’s really out of kindness towards AFK players, etc. Joined 09/30/2020Retired 11/12/2022Former Security SFC || Former MTF Omi9 MSGT || Former CI CPT/MAJ || Former Nu7 LTCOL/VCMDR || Former E11 CPL || Former Maintenance Professional || Former D5 CPT || Former Senior Medic || Former Advanced Researcher | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovelock Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 Ok first why are people only quoting what looks like a good response I say +support In the clip you can clearly tell that the vision is not fully clear as to what he has which will make it look like a weapon therefore I also feel that the punishment at the time should have been a verbal warn and been told to be more careful in future as I have been staring down a scope and killed someone who looks like they are holding a weapon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizer Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 (edited) 16 hours ago, MichaelWebb100 said: Ok first why are people only quoting what looks like a good response I say +support In the clip you can clearly tell that the vision is not fully clear as to what he has which will make it look like a weapon therefore I also feel that the punishment at the time should have been a verbal warn and been told to be more careful in future as I have been staring down a scope and killed someone who looks like they are holding a weapon Not when the reportee has previous recent RDM warns, if he didn't have any I would guess a verbal might suffice. Warns are usually used to deter people from doing things like let's say, being light on the trigger, or ERPing in a server with 13 year olds (Example, has nothing to do with Omen), when the person getting warned already has previous formal warns I am going to guess they got verbals before-hand. I am not going to +1 or -1 this due to me being very biased, unlike many other people here who just came to lend a hand to a friend in removing a warn. I wish I could end this topic where it started, but some people just can't let go, and some have to make it personal... Edited August 28, 2022 by Kaizer Former: SeniorMod - Security CPT - Research RAM RHH Guardian Alpha 99-Agent Purple Rain CCs: Kosher Inspectors - Security Black Ops - The Jokerz - Nobody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omenGL Posted August 28, 2022 Author Share Posted August 28, 2022 2 hours ago, Kaizer said: recent RDM warns one of these warns was from 2020. the 2nd one was me getting fed up with a dclass deliberately going infront of me, this incident is different Security Sergeant Major | Juggernaut Enforcer Owner of A.H.I.R.D 'Atlas'juggernaut RP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovelock Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 5 hours ago, Kaizer said: Not when the reportee has previous recent RDM warns You have to be careful for when those warns were as it could have been from 2 years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darby Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 On 8/27/2022 at 6:49 AM, Nydekore said: +Support RDM is killing without valid reason. This definition is loose and general for a reason, it can be interpreted as is needed. A dclass having an item that can be used as a weapon in a mass security facility is a valid reason to kill them, they’re prisoners and it is gensec’s job to keep it that way. The only exception is for when they’re in lower dblock and that’s really out of kindness towards AFK players, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief_ Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 Accepted To have your warn removed, go to the "Bans" Section at the top of the forums, navigate to your profile, find the warning for this appeal, and for the reason on the appeal, link this post. Head Admin SCP-RP || Event Team Overseer || Ethics Committee || Ex Security FTO 1LT || Ex Security Warden || Ex CI R&D Senior Agent || UMC Guest [LVL 0] || Former Research Researcher || Former DORSU || Former DOC || Former LCZ Manager || I aM sPeCiAl || Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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