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Security Branch Update - 7/23/2022 - Denied


Hex-G

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17 minutes ago, Its Buck said:

MASS -support. Wtf hell fucking no???

Wardens getting the Bal27- hell no even if it is exspira. Y’all don’t need a weapon that OP plus now you will have the KSG and that weapon.

Juggernaut titan will have the same hp as D4 and HTF plus a better LMG then before.

Juggernaut brute should not have the heavy shield for a level 30 class

im already not a fan of you guys having 3 heavy classes and now your going and buffing them??? These classes are tankier than most MTF classes and all they do is sit in D block. I had to fight tooth and nail to get bulldozer to be even remotely useful. And now you guys are buffing classes giving them weapons they don’t even need. Hell was any of this even run past MTF or CI Hcmd???

20 minutes ago, Domo775 said:

-support on lightweight getting the honey badger the gun is really good for a class that has 60 second nlr and a speed boost

-support
a lot of this seems like overkill. i'm not saying that every gensec needs to have shit guns, however it doesn't seem necessary to buff them to this extent considering that they're mainly killing d class at the end of the day.

|retired dhor/meritorious service award recipient||former CI 1lt/sm and E4 C2||Rho 36 Shaman|
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+Support for everything except...

I cannot describe how massive of -Support I wish to give for the entirety of this part:

13 hours ago, Hex-G said:

 

--------------------------------------------------
Job Update
--------------------------------------------------
Job Name:
Security Juggernaut Brute
Adding: +25 AP (175)
Removing: Ares Strike - tfa_ares_shrike
Adding: M249 - tfa_m249lmg
Adding: Heavy Shield - heavy_shield

Additional Note: Level Requirement lowered from 35 -> 30

--------------------------------------------------
Job Update
--------------------------------------------------
Job Name:
Security Juggernaut Titan
Adding: +25 AP (200)
Removing: M249 - tfa_m249lmg
Adding: Negev - tfa_csgo_negev
Pay: $225

With the several last map patches to D-block It's been getting severely more absurd and difficult for the D-class, it feels like we could start getting fence labirynths at any point now, it begins to look more like DarkRP bases than any SCP-RP server, even the donator job such as Pro was subject to a huge nerf which was the change of It's pistol, not to mention Mobster being left out with no medkit or keycard of any sort for a long time, the new mining system is also worth mentioning since where previously D class was able to just buy resources with money, now it isn't an option and it requires insane time commitment to get to the viable guns.

Both the AP and better LMGs are an extreme overkill for those jobs to remain even remotely close to D-block, It's bad enough as it is for the D class even during times of average activity, if anybody would like to mention the CCs, then the same is true for Gensec and shouldn't be a factor regardless.

 

I'm also questioning Bal27 on an LCZ cloaker job which makes it kind of ridiculous, but not nearly as much as the prior changes I've mentioned.

13 hours ago, Hex-G said:

 


Job Name: Security Wardens Exspira
Removing: Vikhr - tfa_vikhr
Adding: Bal27 - aw_bal27
Pay: $200
Adding: models/player/n7legion/advanced_suit_elite.mdl


 

 

Edited by Yeppes

 

  • Retired MTF Nu7 Commander (Lars) / HSU General (Majestic)
  • Retired MTF E11 CPT | SFTO | SCE | SMS | SNM (Lars) / D4 Vanguard (Hypnos)
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16 minutes ago, Its Buck said:

MASS -support. Wtf hell fucking no???

Wardens getting the Bal27- hell no even if it is exspira. Y’all don’t need a weapon that OP plus now you will have the KSG and that weapon.

Juggernaut titan will have the same hp as D4 and HTF plus a better LMG then before.

Juggernaut brute should not have the heavy shield for a level 30 class

im already not a fan of you guys having 3 heavy classes and now your going and buffing them??? These classes are tankier than most MTF classes and all they do is sit in D block. I had to fight tooth and nail to get bulldozer to be even remotely useful. And now you guys are buffing classes giving them weapons they don’t even need. Hell was any of this even run past MTF or CI Hcmd???

I agree on the exspira part. The ksg is already stupidly strong and paired with the ability to cloak and to self heal is straight up deadly. You dont need a Bal27. Like if you swapped that for the ksg it would be better but both is creating a class that is stronger than SA jobs, gun wise. 

The juggernaut AP buff i dont have that much complaint to but yea at the end of the day your fighting dclass. I dont think you need that health.

The heavy shield is very very good. From personal experience from using it you can retreat and negate all damage which is extremely good and should only be given to very limited jobs.

At the end of the day GENSEC is supposed to win against dclass but lose against CI. I think that for a proper balance between all combatative branches GENSEC should be weaker against CI because the targets they
are designed to kill is squishy 150 HP Dclass. Not high health CI. You just dont need better guns to kill the guys with little to no health and armour, you have adequate firepower already. If gensec could handle all CI raids than it takes away from all other MTF.

Security 1LT | Wardens WDE Nu7 2LT | DHTR CA Titania E11 MAJ | SCN STF D4 Silvanus BE6 | RRH GUARDIAN Lima 25

                                                                     

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54 minutes ago, Its Buck said:

MASS -support. Wtf hell fucking no???

Wardens getting the Bal27- hell no even if it is exspira. Y’all don’t need a weapon that OP plus now you will have the KSG and that weapon.

Juggernaut titan will have the same hp as D4 and HTF plus a better LMG then before.

Juggernaut brute should not have the heavy shield for a level 30 class

im already not a fan of you guys having 3 heavy classes and now your going and buffing them??? These classes are tankier than most MTF classes and all they do is sit in D block. I had to fight tooth and nail to get bulldozer to be even remotely useful. And now you guys are buffing classes giving them weapons they don’t even need. Hell was any of this even run past MTF or CI Hcmd???

-support
just basically making security way too overpowered when all they deal with is 125hp 100ap people with CI once in a while. They don't need a warden buff or a jugg buff, just makes it 10x harder for any d-class to remotely escape especially during high pop hours, basically ruining the new players experience.

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-support on the HP/AP Changes and on any note of adding mustard gas or any other hurtful gas

Gensec primary deal with D-class (the weakest jobs on the server) and they barley have any self defense as is.  Also if there is any thought of giving gensec the power to throw gas that can almost one shot the said weakest classes on the server I would not side with it at all due to the fact it seems like you are trying to replace skill with just overall laziness of just throwing a single item instead of actually being able to shoot and kill people (Even if in lore gensec would have access to these things you also need to think about it in the perspective of D-class players since they are though no one wants to accept it, the largest group of players on the server and most of the time D-class are new players and just introducing them to getting smokes just deters them to thinking this is a rp server. Half the time they are just getting partialed or if you add the gas grenades, getting instantly killed)

1 hour ago, Its Buck said:

MASS -support. Wtf hell fucking no???

Wardens getting the Bal27- hell no even if it is exspira. Y’all don’t need a weapon that OP plus now you will have the KSG and that weapon.

Juggernaut titan will have the same hp as D4 and HTF plus a better LMG then before.

Juggernaut brute should not have the heavy shield for a level 30 class

im already not a fan of you guys having 3 heavy classes and now your going and buffing them??? These classes are tankier than most MTF classes and all they do is sit in D block. I had to fight tooth and nail to get bulldozer to be even remotely useful. And now you guys are buffing classes giving them weapons they don’t even need. Hell was any of this even run past MTF or CI Hcmd???

 

Edited by a frog

E11 1LT []FORMER CI MAJOR[]Former MTF OMICRON-9 CAPTAIN[]Former Janitorial Low Command[]Former E11 HCMD[Former overseer of D4,Former experimental, Former E4]
"The fuck is a ethics committee?"

 

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14 hours ago, Hex-G said:

--------------------------------------------------
Job Update
--------------------------------------------------
Job Name:
Security Juggernaut Brute
Adding: +25 AP (175)
Removing: Ares Strike - tfa_ares_shrike
Adding: M249 - tfa_m249lmg
Adding: Heavy Shield - heavy_shield

Additional Note: Level Requirement lowered from 35 -> 30

--------------------------------------------------
Job Update
--------------------------------------------------
Job Name:
Security Juggernaut Titan
Adding: +25 AP (200)
Removing: M249 - tfa_m249lmg
Adding: Negev - tfa_csgo_negev
Pay: $225

Hm, yes, lets make juggernauts meant to fight the weakest class in the server stronger than an MTF heavy class.


-Support.

D-Class rely on CC's during average pop hours, and there has to be at least 2 of these cc's or a couple mobsters. These CC's have to have coordination to begin even remotely applying pressure to a fortified d-block

Due to the fact CC's have 1 minute NLR, they cannot keep applying infinite pressure, but if they can apply enough in 1-2 pushes, they can crack the defense, in which Security call in MTF and a massive tug of war battle takes place
if the D-Class can successfully break through, they have a shot at escaping. they still have to get through HCZ and EZ fighting Nu7, D5, and E11 on the way. if they can manage that they earn their freedom.

Giving juggs as much HP as E11 CE/Officer while giving them the best LMG in the server (and the second best) is overkill, and does not belong on any security job
hell, giving sniper the M98B was overkill as hell (becomes the best sniper, give it to every class in the server.)


I believe these balance decisions should be overviewed, and instead of making security stronger encourage them to get creative on their defense with firing lines, less partial lockdowns and more hands, and different ideas for classes

Edited by PandaInShitpostLand

The God Gamer of the Shitpost Squadron    

 

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-Support on the juggernaut changes for HP/AP
I mean it's a Class that primarily deals with D-Class and GOI on occasion, they should not have the same HP/AP as Special forces, and they also can't be fear rp'ed for some reason. They already have a tank class H.I.R.U.

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1 hour ago, Domo775 said:

-support on lightweight getting the honey badger the gun is really good for a class that has 60 second nlr and a speed boost

Lightweight is also a very exclusive job, it is a level 100+ job with 2 slots. For such a limited job it should have a much better weapon than just the Vector.

1 hour ago, Its Buck said:

Wardens getting the Bal27- hell no even if it is exspira. Y’all don’t need a weapon that OP plus now you will have the KSG and that weapon.

Juggernaut titan will have the same hp as D4 and HTF plus a better LMG then before.

Juggernaut brute should not have the heavy shield for a level 30 class

im already not a fan of you guys having 3 heavy classes and now your going and buffing them??? These classes are tankier than most MTF classes and all they do is sit in D block.

The Bal27 is of very similar quality to the Vikhr. The Vikhr has better damage and the Bal has better accuracy. In terms of mobility, range, mag size, and everything else they are the same. We decided to add the Bal due to exspira having severe issues with range, It is Securities most elite job and should not be limited by range.

Juggernaut H.I.R.U. is the only job of equal HP/AP to D4 and HTF (200,200). The jobs getting buffed are Brute (150,175) and Titan (175,200). This would mean they are still both weaker than any SF.
Juggernaut Brute was initially meant to get the Heavy Shield as it was intended to be a Juggernaut exclusive item. It was originally not added due to the newness of the Sub-Branch. The Level requirement lowering is to help match when people are actually allowed to join the Sub-Branch in Security (CPL).

As for the comment on Security having 3 heavy classes, I am sorry you don't like them but Jugg is here to stay. They are not better HP/AP than most MTF and are currently weaker than Wardens. Sitting in D-Block has become a significantly more difficult job with the additions of the mining system meaning we are getting more D-Class CCs on as well as riots making a Juggernaut buff extremely justified. Juggernauts had their trial period to see how effective they are and we see them as needing a small buff to stay viable.

27 minutes ago, a frog said:

-support on the HP/AP Changes and on any note of adding mustard gas or any other hurtful gas

Gensec primary deal with D-class (the weakest jobs on the server) and they barley have any self defense as is.  Also if there is any thought of giving gensec the power to throw gas that can almost one shot the said weakest classes on the server I would not side with it at all due to the fact it seems like you are trying to replace skill with just overall laziness of just throwing a single item instead of actually being able to shoot and kill people (Even if in lore gensec would have access to these things you also need to think about it in the perspective of D-class players since they are though no one wants to accept it, the largest group of players on the server and most of the time D-class are new players and just introducing them to getting smokes just deters them to thinking this is a rp server. Half the time they are just getting partialed or if you add the gas grenades, getting instantly killed)

 

The ability is for SCMD+ to spawn gas masks. No Security job will be able to spawn mustard gas. The only time it can get used is if a Colonel+ calls magnetic lockdown with Super Admin+ permission.

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Couple things I'll comment:

- Brute was supposed to get the heavy shield last branch update but it was overlooked when SMT did the update (see proof below). We decided to wait until this update as it is a minor change. I'd also add the whole reason we got the shields was when I added them for Security. https://gyazo.com/f0a3e0eb502fbe9240a1368d5b2619cb  

 

- Bal27 is not as good as it once was. HSU (now HTF) dumped the gun when it got nerfed for the ACOG. 

- Nowhere on this update does this say that Security will be getting mustard gas. The reason the masks are being added is because many of our super admin+ forget to spawn them in when we request the gas. 

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+SUPPORT

Coolio, also, some comments.

1 hour ago, PandaInShitpostLand said:

D-Class rely on CC's during average pop hours, and there has to be at least 2 of these cc's or a couple mobsters. These CC's have to have coordination to begin even remotely applying pressure to a fortified d-block

That's how it should be and was intended to be with the nerfs to D-Class via reworking D-Block. D-Class are death row inmates in a top-secret facility protected by highly trained operatives, not highly elite spies against stormtroopers.

1 hour ago, PandaInShitpostLand said:

I believe these balance decisions should be overviewed, and instead of making security stronger encourage them to get creative on their defense with firing lines, less partial lockdowns and more hands, and different ideas for classes

3 things here.

1. We can't just "get creative" with defenses, we already use barricades, firing lines to an extent, and protocols to coordinate. Additionally, any "formation", regardless of branch, quickly crumbles unless it's an SF or extremely coordinated (which GENSEC isn't, especially because most of the new players flock to GENSEC or another "starting branch"). A firing line simply isn't realistic when getting rushed by a bunch of CC's, especially when they utilize janky movement mechanics.

2. Doing more hands up procedures requires less rioting, or moreover a better ability to control rioting, which means more buffs for Security in D-Block. The whole purpose of the new d-block was to severely nerf D-Class for now, at-least until the map update (where, to be honest, D-Class will most likely get nerfed even more).

3. Different ideas for classes? What would we do? A cross-branch maintenance job seems unlikely as it would just be a copy of CE/FE and if you could provide any ideas on how we could make that unique I'd be free. We have a cross-branch Medical job (CCU), we have Wardens and Juggernauts and fast classes and slow classes. It's also EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to get new jobs for GENSEC. Trying to get a new, completely unique job for security is simply unfeasible, however we're down for suggestions.

1 hour ago, a frog said:

trying to replace skill with just overall laziness of just throwing a single item instead of actually being able to shoot and kill people

Mustard Gas is EXTREMELY restrictive, and requires COL+ with Superadmin+ perms to authorize it. Additionally, it's only used in the most extreme of situations (Full/Magnetic Lockdown). I don't see how this would significantly affect D-Class.

1 hour ago, a frog said:

most of the time D-class are new players and just introducing them to getting smokes just deters them to thinking this is a rp server. Half the time they are just getting partialed or if you add the gas grenades, getting instantly killed

Partial's are necessary because of the constant rioting that D-Block faces when CC's are on. We don't have partial nearly as much as previously, which is a good thing, but it's not our fault for just doing our job and calling protocols when rioting occurs, blame it on the rioters. Of course, D-Class should be able to have fun and have an opportunity to escape, but if a brand new player gets killed during Partial, don't blame it on GENSEC.

It's also extremely difficult to fight D-Class CC's outside of a partial lockdown due to the extreme rubberbanding and lag issues of the server. I definitely don't have a top tier NASA computer but I think I shouldn't be getting 20 frames in D-Block.

2 hours ago, Pankyeatspancakes said:

you have adequate firepower already. If gensec could handle all CI raids than it takes away from all other MTF.

We have the adequate firepower, yes, but it doesn't work out when CC's use janky movement mechanics (I.E. Bunny-hopping / Crouch Jumping), while this is to be expected, combined with the extreme lag on the server, it's extremely difficult to fight against.

GENSEC also can't and wouldn't be able to handle CI raids on its own, it typically takes multiple waves of Security and help from MTF to deal with a CI Raid. 

Edited by Ein
  • Like 1

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 Security Colonel Warden Legate Juggernaut Enforcer Research Administrator M.A.D. Site Operations Chief RRA Professor / MTF Delta-5 'Front Runners' Captain Veteran Raptor Operative / Internal Affairs Agency Assistant Director MTF Nu-7 'Hammer Down' Captain / Covert Agent / Deputy Head Field Training Officer / UN Global Occult Coalition Corporal Combat Medic Tactical Paramedic R&D Scientist  Marksman Recon Specialist / MTF Alpha-1 'Red Right Hand' Major Enforcer Squadron Lead

"We are the first line of defense. We are the first responders tasked to save those in danger. We have the responsibility to ensure the safety and well-being of all staff members. Because of that, you are the bravest men I have ever had the honor to serve with.”

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-Support

 

Sorry to say this but I cant support what you've brought up here, mainly because you're a security force not a mobile task force. The reason I say this is you're a force that's main job is to go up against 100 hp classes 75% of the time with now new 3 hit KO weapons against those classes. It's very cool that you are trying to go up against a GOI and I see that's what security has been slowly building up to with these past branch updates, but its really silly that you are actually trying to go up against GOI since your main duty as security is D block. You've also, never went over this branch update with any HCMD.

Everything but nothing

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52 minutes ago, Kevlar_ said:

-support for negev

The negev is the only good LMG on the server pretty much and we already have it on one of our Juggernaut Jobs.

Deputy Head of Security Executive Event Team | Admin | Forum Diplomat 

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+support cool update, idk why you want the bal, we got rid of it cause it sucks but if you want it i’m not gonna complain.  cool concepts on the heavy jobs, can’t wait to see them being put to use!

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6 hours ago, Its Buck said:

MASS -support. Wtf hell fucking no???

Wardens getting the Bal27- hell no even if it is exspira. Y’all don’t need a weapon that OP plus now you will have the KSG and that weapon.

Juggernaut titan will have the same hp as D4 and HTF plus a better LMG then before.

Juggernaut brute should not have the heavy shield for a level 30 class

im already not a fan of you guys having 3 heavy classes and now your going and buffing them??? These classes are tankier than most MTF classes and all they do is sit in D block. I had to fight tooth and nail to get bulldozer to be even remotely useful. And now you guys are buffing classes giving them weapons they don’t even need. Hell was any of this even run past MTF or CI Hcmd???

 

                Former CI CPT|  Guts Mexican                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                            

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+Support on Juggs
NLR should be 3 minutes for them too. SNCOs finally getting tranqs lfg! Warden shotty getting replaced too very nice. Bal-27 is fine to me, I don't see the problem. 

Edited by Grеg
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16 minutes ago, Grеg said:

+Support on Juggs
NLR should be 3 minutes for them too. SNCOs finally getting tranqs lfg! Warden shotty getting replaced too very nice. Bal-27 is fine to me, I don't see the problem. 
-Support on NCOs getting a barret though. They should get a weaker sniper to encourage Sniper activity.

That's the beretta.... A pistol..

RETIRED

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"We are the first line of defense. We are the first responders tasked to save those in danger. We have the responsibility to ensure the safety and well-being of all staff members. Because of that, you are the bravest men I have ever had the honor to serve with.”

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The Brute's heavy shield was not overlooked. Coltable didn't add it because he disagreed with it. I agree that brute should not get the heavy shield. 

6 hours ago, Mind Stone said:

- Brute was supposed to get the heavy shield last branch update but it was overlooked when SMT did the update (see proof below). We decided to wait until this update as it is a minor change. I'd also add the whole reason we got the shields was when I added them for Security. https://gyazo.com/f0a3e0eb502fbe9240a1368d5b2619cb  

Also, in my opinion I don't believe Wardens should get both, the most OP Shotgun & an good AR. (Not mentioning the cloak-swep), I think they should choose either a good shotgun, or good AR. They have a cloak swep which already makes their class good. The AR they're requesting was used formerly by SF, just because it got nerfed doesn't mean its obsolete and up for grabs.

+Support for the rest.

𝐒𝐂𝐏𝐑𝐏 𝐇𝐢𝐠𝐡 𝐂𝐨𝐦𝐦𝐚𝐧𝐝 | 𝐆𝐚𝐦𝐦𝐚 𝐂𝐨𝐦𝐦𝐚𝐧𝐝 - 𝐂𝐡𝐚𝐨𝐬 𝐋𝐭. 𝐂𝐨𝐦𝐦𝐚𝐧𝐝𝐞𝐫
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+support looks good. tbh night time needs this buff as it is supper easy to lose dblock when we dont have people. i know this will make it harder for dclass to escape but they have no nlr and when its only 1 - 5 gensec gaurding dblock at night its vary easy to clear it out after a bit. that and i dont want to keep calling in mtf at 1 hp after i get shot by 3 dclass with negev's and 1 with a berret and barley making my escape so i can let mtf know without them doing a failed check in for dblock over comms/ finding a dclass in ez. day time might be diffrent story but i know that deffintly night time needs a buff like this to atleast make it a fair fight instead of wave survival for gensec

 

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