General Suggestion - Banning Crouch Spam / Crouch Jumping / Jump Spamming while in Combat. - Denied

[Ein]

What are you suggesting? - Players who are actively in a combat situation ("Combat Situation" follows the same definition as "Active Shootout" in the Combat Healing rules) should not be allowed to use unrealistic movement in order to gain themselves an advantage in said situation. Players should have to think about their movement, use cover, and not just blindly bum-rush while spamming crouch or crouch jumping to get kills. This wouldn't ban crouching in a combat situation, but spamming crouch, crouch jumping, or generally unrealistic movement shouldn't be allowed while in combat.

How would this change better the server? - Combat would become generally more fun for those who are more interested in actually using their brain. Someone has to actually use cover and make smarter plays than just running out and crouch spamming around the target so that they can't hit them.

Are there any disadvantages of making this change to the server? If so, explain. - This would make it even more difficult for D-Class to escape (If you can consider this a disadvantage).

Who would this change mostly benefit? - Roleplayers, and a large amount of Combatants, basically everyone but D-Class.

Please link any workshop content, screenshots, or anything that you think may be helpful to those who view this suggestion - N/A

[Gunther]

-Support, only because how would this be enforced and/or proven, unless someone is recording every fight they are ever in? This just seems like a unnecessary ban of movement, like this is a mostly serious RP, but not that serious.

[K I W I]

+Support
This would be somewhat hard to enforce but would make combat more enjoyable, some peoples hitboxes get straight up broken whenever someone crouch spams

Edited July 5, 2022 by K I W I
Changing support

[J0LT]

-support

Gmod

[Orange 🍊]

-Support
Massive skill issue
Everyone is capable of doing
Makes combat more fun 
Keeps skill in the limited combat skill the server requires. Combat is pretty much depends on who has the most HP and Armor, giving a way to still kill people with higher HP and Armor (Seeing as guns don't do realistic damage)

[Domo775]

-support 

just aim lol

[Fieryphonix]

1 minute ago, Orange said:

-Support
Massive skill issue
Everyone is capable of doing
Makes combat more fun 
Keeps skill in the limited combat skill the server requires. Combat is pretty much depends on who has the most HP and Armor, giving a way to still kill people with higher HP and Armor (Seeing as guns don't do realistic damage)

 

 

[Grеg]

+/- Support 

If something like this was done it would have to be a movement plugin that makes jumping around like a madman make you very slow, just banning it wouldn’t be good for the server.

[LilThinMints]

-support

[Dick Grayson]

-support make guns actually hit hard so that people dont feel the need to constantly crouch spam 

[Ozzie_]

-support lol

The difficult of enforcing this alone makes it not worth it, not to mention the current state of TTK and weapon damage makes this behavior necessary. 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Ozzzie
Added substance and clarity.

[Eyelander]

-support
this would probably be too difficult to enforce to be worth it

[Operator Houston]

- support

aim better

[Cecil Stedmen]

55 minutes ago, Orange said:

-Support
Massive skill issue
Everyone is capable of doing
Makes combat more fun 
Keeps skill in the limited combat skill the server requires. Combat is pretty much depends on who has the most HP and Armor, giving a way to still kill people with higher HP and Armor (Seeing as guns don't do realistic damage)

 

[Some Weeb]

-Support

 

security moment 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Some Weeb

[GarGar]

-support 

this is a game about a unkillable lizard and a bowl of candy that rips off your hands there’s no realism 

crouch jumping literally everyone can do this is just cope bruh

think before you post

[1stSavagerY]

4 hours ago, K I W I said:

+Support
This would be somewhat hard to enforce but would make combat more enjoyable, some peoples hitboxes get straight up broken whenever someone crouch spams

Would be super easy to implement I would think too, all it would require is some sort of stamina system.

Also not everyone is a pro at gmod, everyone should be able to have an enjoyable time in the PVP aspect of this server, not just a select few classes.  Adding a stamina system would significantly balance out gunplay in this server as people wouldn't be able to glitch out their hitboxes with jump-crouching while full sprinting around corners.  Saying it's a "skill issue" is the main reason we have this problem in the first place, as it's literally just an excuse blame it on the individual player for not being a gmod pvp god instead of the combat system, which is a horrible outlook on the situation.  If we're just able to chalk it up to a "skill difference," then it just enables those few select classes to do whatever they want while newer players or players who just want to play casually just get screwed over time and time again.  We shouldn't be only catering towards those few classes, we should be catering to ALL players and especially newer players as that's how a server grows and prospers.  I’ve crouch spammed and I do it in pvp occasionally when my opponent is doing it, but it’s just generally not fun for all parties involved; and when I observe others doing it, all it results in is one party shit talking the other, which is another problem entirely but strange how it’s almost only those people involved that do it.  Adding some kind of stamina system to prevent this from happening would be a huge step towards fixing the combat on the server; in fact, it would fix most of it.  It would also make PVP more interesting as PvP on the server has been stagnant for quite a while, a new system would do wonders to change it up a bit.  Saying otherwise is pretty much the same as saying you want the servers combat system to stay stagnant, which is beneficial to literally no one.

HUGE +SUPPORT

Edited July 5, 2022 by 1stSavagerY

[MexicanGuy]

-Support

Security Moment x2

[Ein]

36 minutes ago, 1stSavagerY said:

Saying it's a "skill issue" is the main reason we have this problem in the first place, as it's literally just an excuse blame it on the individual player for not being a gmod pvp god instead of the combat system, which is a horrible outlook on the situation.  If we're just able to chalk it up to a "skill difference," then it just enables those few select classes to do whatever they want while newer players or players who just want to play casually just get screwed over time and time again. 

I hate to seem biased, but I absolutely agree with this point here. I see a lot of people leaving -Support's and blaming it on skill and leaving no constructive criticism. However, I'd like to address 3 actual pieces of constructive criticism with my opinion.

 

It can't be enforced / would be too difficult to enforce.

I actually thought of this while writing, however, the vast majority of people have some sort of recording software (I.E. Medal), and this is absolutely vital in proving anything in an admin sit in the first place. Rules such as exploiting, FearRP, and a bunch of other shit require video evidence and this stuff is already enforced. Of course, feel free to leave feedback, but regardless, there's plenty of people to report such a thing.

 

It keeps combat interesting and keeps the skill required (and it makes it more fun)

I think Savager's post describes almost all of my thoughts here, but by changing up the combat system into something that requires you to effectively use cover, movement, teamwork, and makes the use of actual tactics much more possible would make combat more interesting. Playing against someone who's crouch spamming is inherently unfun regardless of who's up against it because when they die to said player, it feels almost unfair, and in some situations it has worked in the inverse as well. I don't think I've ever seen anyone who says "I think it's more fun if someone crouch spams while in combat" or anything along those lines.

 

It gives weaker players a chance to win a gunfight

It does, but this shouldn't be the case in the first place. Players with lower HP / Armor compared to another enemy should have to use strategy to win. That's how all combat should work. Players who can't learn to coordinate with their team when the odds are against them actively deserve to lose, and abusing movement mechanics shouldn't be the strategy. If you're caught completely alone in a combat situation, you should either be an expert in pvp or expect to die.

 

Another completely valid way to handle all of this would be to just buff TTK, which I completely agree with.

This is just my 2 cents on things. Feel free to leave additional feedback.

[Gyara]

-support

35 minutes ago, Ein said:

It can't be enforced / would be too difficult to enforce.

I actually thought of this while writing, however, the vast majority of people have some sort of recording software (I.E. Medal), and this is absolutely vital in proving anything in an admin sit in the first place. Rules such as exploiting, FearRP, and a bunch of other shit require video evidence and this stuff is already enforced. Of course, feel free to leave feedback, but regardless, there's plenty of people to report such a thing.

What people mean by "hard to enforce" isn't the recording software issue; multiple people have medal or GeForce experience, and it would be effortless to record people breaking the rule. The main problem with it being hard to enforce is the SHEER amount of reports people will get. Every new player will break this rule because MOST new players don't read the MOTD, meaning that they are unaware of this rule, and it would also be tough to tell 50+ new players that you aren't allowed to jump while shooting, which sounds stupid. I am not going to tell the 150-240  new players (Stats from battle Metrics in the last 2 weeks) every day that they aren't allowed to shoot while jumping or be crouch spamming. ANOTHER problem with this is that this rule is incredibly easy to break, meaning players can get warned for the littlest things. For example, let's say I'm in a gunfight with a D-Class, and I instinctively crouch-jump that would get me warned. It just seems stupid, tbh.

Skill Issue

35 minutes ago, Ein said:

It keeps combat interesting and keeps the skill required (and it makes it more fun)

I think Savager's post describes almost all of my thoughts here, but by changing up the combat system into something that requires you to effectively use cover, movement, teamwork, and makes the use of actual tactics much more possible would make combat more interesting. Playing against someone who's crouch spamming is inherently unfun regardless of who's up against it because when they die to said player, it feels almost unfair, and in some situations it has worked in the inverse as well. I don't think I've ever seen anyone who says "I think it's more fun if someone crouch spams while in combat" or anything along those lines.

I agree with what you are saying here, we need a way to make combat more exciting or interesting, but in this suggestion, the cons outweigh the pros by a significant amount, I would much rather not take 100+ sits a week when instead we can just let crouch spam be allowed.

35 minutes ago, Ein said:

It gives weaker players a chance to win a gunfight

It does, but this shouldn't be the case in the first place. Players with lower HP / Armor compared to another enemy should have to use strategy to win. That's how all combat should work. Players who can't learn to coordinate with their team when the odds are against them actively deserve to lose, and abusing movement mechanics shouldn't be the strategy. If you're caught completely alone in a combat situation, you should either be an expert in pvp or expect to die.

If I had to be honest, I think crouch spamming or B-hopping in combat are the only ways to win in a gun fight against someone stronger than you. The best thing you can do is peek and shoot, but we don't have a leaning mechanic or anything. The best thing we can rely on is aim, but I can agree with you on this. Weaker people should find a different way to fight against stronger enemies, but the only real problem with why people are -supporting this is that it is way too hard to enforce and cause its a skill issue get better. Even if I agree with your statement here, it doesn't change the fact that enforcing this rule would be WAY too difficult. The cons outweigh the pros by a significant amount, making this suggestion really hard to implement.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Gyara

[Chineseman]

=neutral 
NGL but you should totally improve ur aim if you complain about this and and im just saying be greatfull that this server dont have prone for it.

[Coltable]

I like crouch spamming.
 

[Coltable]

Denied. The SCP-RP SMT has decided against adding this suggestion for performance reasons, the benefit to the server, or another unstated reason.