General Suggestion - D-Block Rework/Redesign - Accepted [Completed]

[Regr3tti]

I would support this if it was balanced with these contraints:

 

1. The checkpoints need to be airlocks
2. Keep the checkpoint airlocks open until the point where gensec would typically call "Hands Up". This simultaneously keeps D-Block's ability to riot (as long as they've been peaceful), while allowing gensec the ability to quickly stop the riot and gain control. This will also give Researchers a safe time to go in and get some test subjects without worrying about a riot and instant death in the crossfire.
3. Allow SCPs to enter (but not camp) all the way up to the point of the airlocks. This is probably controversial, but it's not fun when an mtf/gensec/etc runs to the doorway of dblock to avoid an SCP and life goes on as normal there. They should have to essentially hit the button to close the airlocks and deal with hanging in Dblock's upper level until the SCP is recontained or leaves. This creates fun drama/conflict/RP opportunities for dblock and gensec/mtf/etc when hiding together, boosting eachother up to the catwalk, fighting the scp together, fighting each other, etc.

[Regr3tti]

+ Support

Would be much more fun, cuff or rope Dclass and take them to Research or back to Dblock.

[SnarledBison]

On 6/3/2022 at 10:59 PM, Hex-G said:

Also, like Ein said, this would need to be an encouraged and not required addition.

If its encouraged the problem will always be "why take them back, when it would be faster to shoot them". People would never attempt to do anything because it'd be slower.

[Hex-G]

4 hours ago, SnarledBison said:

If its encouraged the problem will always be "why take them back, when it would be faster to shoot them". People would never attempt to do anything because it'd be slower.

The hope is that we would encourage security to do so unless it is absolutely necessary to kill them. We train security for encouraged rules very frequently. 
Many Enlisted believe crossing the red line to be against the rules when in reality it is only encouraged. This affect would be easy to replicate and anyone in security would have many reasons to KOS a D-Class and would receive praise for bringing one back alive. Making this act commendable through NCO encouragement and possibly showing a level of skill would help in the long term.

[Regr3tti]

25 minutes ago, Hex-G said:

The hope is that we would encourage security to do so unless it is absolutely necessary to kill them. We train security for encouraged rules very frequently. 
Many Enlisted believe crossing the red line to be against the rules when in reality it is only encouraged. This affect would be easy to replicate and anyone in security would have many reasons to KOS a D-Class and would receive praise for bringing one back alive. Making this act commendable through NCO encouragement and possibly showing a level of skill would help in the long term.

That sounds so much more complicated to implement than simply: making them give the dclass ~5-10 seconds to put their hands up and stop moving, before being able to shoot them for non-compliance.

[Hex-G]

1 minute ago, Regr3tti said:

That sounds so much more complicated to implement than simply: making them give the dclass ~5-10 seconds to put their hands up and stop moving, before being able to shoot them for non-compliance.

Its not complicated at all. 
Its one extra line while doing basic training.
"If you see D-Class outside of D-Block you can either try and arrest them or KOS them if they run or have a weapon."

If you wanted to make it hands up than D-Class could technically run with hands up and use that loophole. Its an easy fix just to shoot running D-Class but it needs to be written out properly if it would be something added to the SOP.

[Regr3tti]

15 minutes ago, Hex-G said:

Its not complicated at all. 
Its one extra line while doing basic training.
"If you see D-Class outside of D-Block you can either try and arrest them or KOS them if they run or have a weapon."

If you wanted to make it hands up than D-Class could technically run with hands up and use that loophole. Its an easy fix just to shoot running D-Class but it needs to be written out properly if it would be something added to the SOP.

You'll have to come up with an incentive that's better than being able to KOS if you plan to make it optional, that's going to be a hard balance and will get applied heavily on the side of KOS - it's not like Dclass are unable to be arrested currently, no one does it because there's no good incentive to do so. Making it explicitly optional does nothing imo. Could change your training line to "If you see D-Class outside of D-Block and they have a gun out you can KOS, otherwise you must tell them to stop moving and put their hands up, if they don't comply within 5 seconds you can KOS." And no, running with your hands up is not a loophole since they would have to put their hands up and stop moving.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Regr3tti

[Hex-G]

8 minutes ago, Regr3tti said:

You'll have to come up with an incentive that's better than being able to KOS if you plan to make it optional, that's going to be a hard balance and will get applied heavily on the side of KOS - it's not like Dclass are unable to be arrested currently, no one does it because there's no good incentive to do so. Making it explicitly optional does nothing imo. Could change your training line to "If you see D-Class outside of D-Block and they have a gun out you can KOS, otherwise you must tell them to stop moving and put their hands up, if they don't comply within 5 seconds you can KOS." And no, running with your hands up is not a loophole since they would have to put their hands up and stop moving.

A very large and important incentive is the recommendation of an NCO or possible promotion. The ability to show the completion of a difficult task (capturing a D-Class rather than killing them) would merit praise. That, along with making it very clear that capturing is our preferred choice would be the incentives.
 

On 6/3/2022 at 10:59 PM, Hex-G said:

I think this is a good idea WITH some restrictions. I think that if it was only on blue and yellow, not having a weapon out, and not resisting are good restrictions. I would also just add that if they are able to escape the encounter they are still KOS. By this I mean that if they would be too far away to fear rp them. 
Example: You are running from interrogation to Research bunks and see a D-Class down the hallway at the greenhouse checkpoint. In this scenario they would still be KOS because they are too far away to fear rp.
Also, like Ein said, this would need to be an encouraged and not required addition.

As I said in my original post. This would also only be during low intensity site codes (blue and yellow). Prioritizing the return of D-Class during any hazardous situation is a clear bad choice. It would be far easier to implement the "all the time recommended" approach rather than "Mandatory during these codes" approach.

[Trizium]

On 6/2/2022 at 9:27 PM, Respecter of Women Big Ben said:

+support

This server needs more RP and less combat

 

[Nydekore]

-Support for forcing it on them

RP cannot be forced. Roleplay is a consent based activity based upon interests and so forcing this on security would be incorrect.

Encouraging it should be fine enough which it sounds like Security might be interested in

[SnarledBison]

4 hours ago, Nydekore said:

-Support for forcing it on them

RP cannot be forced. Roleplay is a consent based activity based upon interests and so forcing this on security would be incorrect.

Encouraging it should be fine enough which it sounds like Security might be interested in

So you're saying forcing RP on people who are in SCP roleplay server is too far? This server has too many just shoot them things. People will never start to RP if we just keep them like this and never enforce anything. The problem is its always easier to just shoot so if we just encourage it people will always look for a way around to just shoot them all.

Edited June 6, 2022 by SnarledBison

[SnarledBison]

4 hours ago, Hex-G said:

A very large and important incentive is the recommendation of an NCO or possible promotion. The ability to show the completion of a difficult task (capturing a D-Class rather than killing them) would merit praise. That, along with making it very clear that capturing is our preferred choice would be the incentives.
 

As I said in my original post. This would also only be during low intensity site codes (blue and yellow). Prioritizing the return of D-Class during any hazardous situation is a clear bad choice. It would be far easier to implement the "all the time recommended" approach rather than "Mandatory during these codes" approach.

If you look in the original post I did mention that it would only be required if its code blue and yellow.

[Nydekore]

12 minutes ago, SnarledBison said:

People will never start to RP if we just keep them like this and never enforce anything.

 People have to choose to RP, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink

[MexicanGuy]

4 hours ago, Nydekore said:

-Support for forcing it on them

RP cannot be forced. Roleplay is a consent based activity based upon interests and so forcing this on security would be incorrect.

Encouraging it should be fine enough which it sounds like Security might be interested in

You cannot force RP in a RP server?

+Support 

With the necessary and basic rules I think it could be a good addition

 

[new rowphin]

On 6/3/2022 at 4:05 PM, Diz said:

+ Support

Only problems I can see are

1. Elastic Cuffs are slow, like really fucking slow, I’d recommend changing the cuffs (Probably to the Rope Leash)

2. If Gensec uses FearRP to cuff D-Class, this would lead to a lot of sits due to most D-Class not knowing how FearRP works.

^^^^
Warnings can also be given to people who disobey your order (Stand Still, Warning 1, Warning 2 etc etc) and on like the 2nd or 3rd warning u can kill then.

[Sixx]

11 hours ago, Nydekore said:

-Support for forcing it on them

RP cannot be forced. Roleplay is a consent based activity based upon interests and so forcing this on security would be incorrect.

Encouraging it should be fine enough which it sounds like Security might be interested in

 

[Mind Stone]

-Support

While I like the concept, in action it would be a nightmare if enforced. Here’s my concerns:

- Class-D go to armory, buy a AR/Sniper/LMG/etc. surrender then go to D-Block. They then massacre Security.

- Class-D pretend to surrender then kill us as we try to arrest them.

- Difficult to prove if someone was KOS during staff sits, which would be a common occurrence with this addition. 

- As I’ve seen mentioned, RP only exists with consent, and Class-D hardly ever attempt to RP. Forcing my branch to RP with them while they don’t need to makes zero sense.

With that said, I’d consider the following:

- Encourage cuffing Class-D. I can do my part to push for this.

- There would be exceptions such as running from us when we are clearly trying to make an arrest. Obviously there are more but I won’t list them for times sake.

- Give Security a weapon check/strip swep. Class-D who wish to RP can place their hands up as we strip them of their weapons or check if they have them. We can then ensure they have no weapons as we return them to D-Block. However, CCs would probably rather go down fighting than consent to being stripped. 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Mind Stone

[LilThinMints]

On 6/4/2022 at 12:12 AM, Hex-G said:

Big +Support

I think a map update and a few small content update could provide A HUGE amount of rp possibilities for D-Block. 

1. Updating the map to have upper D-Block make sense: Having the checkpoint doors that can seal off D-Class and Security makes perfect sense. They are prisoners and allowing them to have an open space with the threat of a red line between them and possible freedom makes 0 sense. Creating a D-Block where they would need to work together to climb up to a ledge, keycrack open a door, or take advantage of a Security member and sneaking through should be their ways of escape, not jump and crouch spamming on a CC and killing all 4 enlisted holding d-block with nothing but a knife.

2. Give D-Class and Security more to do. Right now the only things D-Class can do is mine and riot. Having some games (chess tables, gambling machines, perma-propped basketball court) would give them entertaining and enriching options. Security could also do contra ban inspections in Lower D-Block and introduce some new protocols that would require D-Class to line up to gather them for testing/SCPs (testing could add a lot to the D-Class experience and I hope Research HCMD take that into consideration).

D-Class should ideally not be able to escape/overpower Security on their own. Having easy ways of escape That Require D-Class to work together is imo the only real way it should be done.

As long as the checkpoints are hackable (lvl 1) and not just a fuck you mechanic with no way through like sniper tower then fine I guess

[Coltable]

Myself, SMT and Site admin will go over this within the coming week and review which features we think would benefit the server the most. Thank you.

[Coltable]

Accepted! Please allow up to a week for any suggestions you have requested to be added in game or on the forums.

[Kevlar_]

Completed!

This suggestion is now in the server