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Removing the CI KOS list - Denied


Kvist

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Obligatory format:

What are you suggesting? - Removing the CI KOS list.

How would this change better the server? - All points are below.

Are there any disadvantages of making this change to the server? If so, explain. - It may be initially harder for CI to deal with rebelling D-Class.

Who would this change mostly benefit? - D-Class that want to actually be D-Class and attack everybody.

Hello,

To put it simply, the CI KOS list is untenable for any type of roleplay server. To my understanding, they put D-Class on a Kill-on-Sight list if they attack CI during a raid repeatedly. This is troubling for a number of reasons:

1) This is in stark contrast to any type of roleplay rules or standards, particularly concerning using OOC information in an IC fashion. Stopping in the middle of a raid to rp_lookup somebody to decide whether or not to shoot them is difficult to combine with any form of roleplay. D-Class can be annoying, but they should be dealt with in an in-character fashion.

2) The Foundation is forced to come up with IC solutions to D-Class rebellions, whether it's D-Block protocols or using comms to narrow down their search. I respect the fact that CI is in a unique situation as the only anti-Foundation branch, and that should be mitigated with buffs and other advantages. What shouldn't happen is a warping of the rules at the expense of the most important section of the server, the D-Class.

3) This encourages laziness and a lack of roleplay. New procedures or using IC comms is something that CI can easily utilize to counter rebelling D-Class. I distinctly remember a CI raid where they literally locked down D-Block and slaughtered all the D-Class wholesale because they were being attacked constantly. That'll send their message, both IC and OOC.

4) What if the shoe was on the other foot? Can you imagine if the Foundation had a KOS list of EOI operatives? What if we made a list of known rebelling D-Class and just gunned them down when they came up the elevator? Again, CI is in a precarious position as the only anti-Foundation branch, yet warping the rules to benefit them just leads to resentment and confusion.

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+Support

This is the same if Gensec were to put DNTs or KOSs for a duration of time on Class-D that repeatedly kill them.

MTF Epsilon-11 Colonel | farmer glennG-FUEL Fiend

Former Security DHOS

"I’m an early bird and a night owl. So I’m wise and have worms.”

― Michael Scott

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+support i don't see reason for CI to find and kill d class doesn't seem much RP to me i would like to see more of a this dclass is killing kill him during this raid but it shouldn't carry over 

 

Gensec 1LT  RnD IIN

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13 minutes ago, Georgie_ said:

+Support

This is the same if Gensec were to put DNTs or KOSs for a duration of time on Class-D that repeatedly kill them.

+Support The CI  KOS list has always been unnecessary in my and basically just metagaming in my opinion 

Ranks: Former DHWD SEC MAJ | Former Nu7 SM | Former Research RM | Former Foxtrot-15 | EXM

CCs: (Owns) Omnipurpouse Furry Force, (On) MTF Rev 26 'Vigilant Hero' , Snowmen , MTF Unit Heaven Ascendants A Normal D-Class 

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1 minute ago, Average Pipebomb enjoyer said:

-Support 
This is needed so MTF dont just get on dclass and target CI for 30 mins 

Welcome to D-Class. This is part and parcel of what D-Class is about, people getting on there to shoot at stuff because they're bored. Literally the entire server has to deal with that. It can be dealt with very easily in an IC fashion, and not through Steam IDs.

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+Support, I don't really see how this is fair in any way, I understand it's annoying for CI, but to me it seems like using OOC info for an in RP scenario, If GenSec did the same thing for a specific Maynard/EOI player it'd be considered player targeting and failRP.

|| Retired GenSec || STARS || J04 "Crest" || Foul Tarnished || 

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12 minutes ago, Average Pipebomb enjoyer said:

-Support 
This is needed so MTF dont just get on dclass and target CI for 30 mins 

People that were in CI used to do the exact same thing. After they died in a raid, they would flag onto Class-D and riot.

MTF Epsilon-11 Colonel | farmer glennG-FUEL Fiend

Former Security DHOS

"I’m an early bird and a night owl. So I’m wise and have worms.”

― Michael Scott

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16 minutes ago, [GL] Fryingpan36 said:

@Cosmic The Italian @Alexxx

Opinions?

Also -support it's meant to stop D-Class from shooting is every raid. Anyways CI don't go out of their way to shoot people on the KOS list (usually) most of the time we don't shoot first unless it's someone that we know no matter what will shoot us like meeseeks. I see no need for it's removal

I just gave you multiple reasons. Your issues with D-Class is the nature is with the nature of D-Class as a whole: they are unpredictable and their allegiances are different. It should be dealt with in an IC fashion through protocols, ingame communication, and so on. Resorting to a completely OOC, metagaming mechanic to deal with what literally the entire server has to deal with isn't cool.

Edited by Kvist
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1 hour ago, Average Pipebomb enjoyer said:

-Support 
This is needed so MTF dont just get on dclass and target CI for 30 mins 

LMAOOO, only if D-Class can't kill or ARDM CI.
 

Quote

We either remove the ability for dclass to attack CI, or we keep the list, if you decide to attack the one branch whos trying to help you on the server then its on "you" the player to deal with the consequences of your decision be that being placed on a list or what ever it be, you made that happen nobody else. If you dont want to be placed on a kos list for the safety of CI personnel then don't kill them, easy fix.

Edited by Cuz L0g1c

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A̵̙̥̭̠̓̅̎͘͝ͅ1̵̢̙̲̰̦̞͆͊ ̴̝̏́͑͂͝N̴̨͊̍o̸̖̦̬̅̑̇̍͠m̶̖̃a̸͉̤̜̪̘͑͌͝ḑ̶̘̣̬͇̈́ ̵͈̤̪͇̉͋̓̾Ỉ̴͓͔͍̻͖͕́͆͂̕͝  /  Ş̵̧̛͙̙̼̌́͑̐͠T̶̢͔̫̿̓̿̅F̷̟̗̅̄̚ͅ ̷̝̈́̏̀̾̔̑D̸̰̓̾͌͝͝4̵̠̼̓̅̆͝͠ ̷̭̺͎̇H̸͚͖͇̃̀̋͘a̷̛͎͉̦̦̐̽́̑d̷̨͖͋e̵͍͒͆ś̵͈̪͓̞ ̸̣͉̄Ḍ̸̓I̶̩͖̖̟̯͒3̵̨̡̩͇̏̏

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We either remove the ability for dclass to attack CI, or we keep the list, if you decide to attack the one branch whos trying to help you on the server then its on "you" the player to deal with the consequences of your decision be that being placed on a list or what ever it be, you made that happen nobody else. If you dont want to be placed on a kos list for the safety of CI personnel then don't kill them, easy fix.

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1 hour ago, Average Pipebomb enjoyer said:

-Support 
This is needed so MTF dont just get on dclass and target CI for 30 mins 

whats the rp reason for d class to kill ci? they are literally helping them escape.

 

1 minute ago, Cuz L0g1c said:

LMAOOO, only if D-Class can't kill or ARDM CI.

what jeff said.

Retried: CI LTCMDR CI R&D AIN, E11 CPT, and Research Assistant Manager.

 

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-Support Coltable said it perfectly

2 minutes ago, Coltable said:

We either remove the ability for dclass to attack CI, or we keep the list, if you decide to attack the one branch whos trying to help you on the server then its on "you" the player to deal with the consequences of your decision be that being placed on a list or what ever it be, you made that happen nobody else. If you dont want to be placed on a kos list for the safety of CI personnel then don't kill them, easy fix.

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7 minutes ago, Coltable said:

We either remove the ability for dclass to attack CI, or we keep the list, if you decide to attack the one branch whos trying to help you on the server then its on "you" the player to deal with the consequences of your decision be that being placed on a list or what ever it be, you made that happen nobody else. If you dont want to be placed on a kos list for the safety of CI personnel then don't kill them, easy fix.

fax

Retired Nu-7 Vice Commander Pure

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30 minutes ago, [GL] Fryingpan36 said:

@Cosmic The Italian @Alexxx

Opinions?

Also -support it's meant to stop D-Class from shooting is every raid. Anyways CI don't go out of their way to shoot people on the KOS list (usually) most of the time we don't shoot first unless it's someone that we know no matter what will shoot us like meeseeks. I see no need for it's removal

We'll remove it if D-class can't attack CI anymore, the whole point of the list is to give us a change againts those d-class (you know I'm talking about you) that flag onto D-class whenever CI are called out.

But If they still want to kill CI then we'll keep the list.

Edited by Cosmic The Italian
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EX Head Of Staff SCP-RP | CI will forever be in my heart. 1/15/21 - 8/1/22 (CI CMDR Cosmic ITLY)

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9 minutes ago, Coltable said:

We either remove the ability for dclass to attack CI, or we keep the list, if you decide to attack the one branch whos trying to help you on the server then its on "you" the player to deal with the consequences of your decision be that being placed on a list or what ever it be, you made that happen nobody else. If you dont want to be placed on a kos list for the safety of CI personnel then don't kill them, easy fix.

-support what colt said

Frfr

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12 minutes ago, Coltable said:

We either remove the ability for dclass to attack CI, or we keep the list, if you decide to attack the one branch whos trying to help you on the server then its on "you" the player to deal with the consequences of your decision be that being placed on a list or what ever it be, you made that happen nobody else. If you dont want to be placed on a kos list for the safety of CI personnel then don't kill them, easy fix.

D-Class are not a unified branch. All types of people play it for different reasons and motivations, and that is also true to what D-Class would reasonably be IC. Most D-Class do not attack CI because they understand that CI are rescuing them. However, there is always the chance that the deranged inmate that is locked up for dangerous, unethical testing might open fire on the people with big guns that look exactly like the other people with big guns that are keeping them captive.

The unpredictability of D-Class is an issue that literally everybody has to deal with in an IC fashion besides CI. While we seem to be moving in a roleplay oriented direction, this is something that seems to tip the scales into a PVP direction.

EDIT: In what world are we giving people consequences for playing the game, by the way? IC consequences are part of roleplay, sure, but OOC consequences? A player should be shot because of his Steam ID? No, a D-Class should be shot because he's prone to attack CI.

Edited by Kvist
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2 minutes ago, Cosmic The Italian said:

We'll remove it if D-class can't attack CI anymore, the whole point of the list is to give us a change againts those d-class (you know I'm talking about you) that flag onto D-class whenever CI are called out.

But If they still want to kill CI then we'll keep the list.

I agree with Cosmic. I'm neither CI, or a D-Class main, but it's pretty obvious that this list should still be allowed for the safety of the CI operatives. And by claiming it's metagame, well it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to state that D-Class killing people there to save them should be FailRP.

-Support

SCP-RP Head of Staff | Ethics Committee Chairman

Former Nu-7 VCMDR l Former GenSec CPT

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9 minutes ago, Kvist said:

In what world are we giving people consequences for playing the game, by the way?

Its a consequence to prevent players from abusing the "OH IM CRAZY IM GONNA STAND BEHIDE CI AND KILL THEM HA HA CRAZY" That sort of "Roleplay" as you've stated is totally fine but whats not okay is players who decide to abuse it and THOSE players are the ones who get on the KOS list. 

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