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Get rid of thermals. [Completed]


Phillers

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3 minutes ago, islandtoad said:

+support for everything except a thermals swep, from my experience they cause a lot of lag 

 

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6 hours ago, islandtoad said:

+support for everything except a thermals swep, from my experience they cause a lot of lag 

It does not have to cause a lot of lag. It can be implemented the same as any other SWEP, with a small clientside only check that disables NoDraw on players when the thermals are activated.

It would cause about as much lag as the keys swep.

Not to mention it doesn't even have to be a SWEP, but could simply be a keybind that MTF can use, which is even less lag than a keys swep.

Edited by Veesus
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+/- Support, I feel that this could make cloakers like crazy OP especially in a place like Dblock where theirs loads of cover and people to hide behind, even in other places it'd be crazy easy to just run through a door when they start shooting. and once they get through that door you've pretty much lost them till they decide otherwise. I do really like the idea as well cause I think it'd be really fun to play as one of these cloakers, but mainly cause you could probably take out most people solo with a well timed sniper head shot then negev spray or something like that. Perhaps you could make specific classes to counter them? call it like MTF Ghost hunter or some crap and only these units get thermals and theirs a limited amount of them per branch, or perhaps give them only to like D5 or something because they're meant to target humans, obviously CI would need an equivalent class to deal with foundation cloakers.

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49 minutes ago, Meridian said:

+/- Support, I feel that this could make cloakers like crazy OP especially in a place like Dblock where theirs loads of cover and people to hide behind, even in other places it'd be crazy easy to just run through a door when they start shooting. and once they get through that door you've pretty much lost them till they decide otherwise. I do really like the idea as well cause I think it'd be really fun to play as one of these cloakers, but mainly cause you could probably take out most people solo with a well timed sniper head shot then negev spray or something like that. Perhaps you could make specific classes to counter them? call it like MTF Ghost hunter or some crap and only these units get thermals and theirs a limited amount of them per branch, or perhaps give them only to like D5 or something because they're meant to target humans, obviously CI would need an equivalent class to deal with foundation cloakers.

So much yes! This sounds amazing 

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47 minutes ago, Igneous said:

What about something that disables the cloak for a few seconds if the person gets shot?

Most likely would require a 966 SWEP rework or a whole new SWEP. 
 

Also infil/PF getting caught in crossfire would be very annoying 

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10 minutes ago, [GL] Bacon/Buck said:

Most likely would require a 966 SWEP rework or a whole new SWEP. 
 

Also infil/PF getting caught in crossfire would be very annoying 

I'm sure this really wouldn't be a problem for the modding team
also crossfire? seems like a skill issue. Just don't be there for the fights.

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On 11/8/2021 at 10:17 PM, Veesus said:

+/- support

I personally support an actual implementation of thermals as a game mechanic instead of outright removal. Like a button that can be bound to turn on thermals, which reveals cloaked players only to the person with thermals on. To balance this people with thermals on would gain some kind of slight debuff like a lower movement speed, and the thermals would have some kind of time limit of about a minute per activation and a slight cooldown after deactivation to prevent spamming. In return for these limitations, you would no longer need a reason to flip them on. This would lead to a much more tactical and calculated use for thermals, with mtf needing to coordinate with each other on when to turn on thermals.

 

 

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13 hours ago, [GL] Bacon/Buck said:

Also infil/PF getting caught in crossfire would be very annoying 

Honestly this won't become more of a problem then it already is currently.

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On 11/9/2021 at 6:29 PM, Igneous said:

What about something that disables the cloak for a few seconds if the person gets shot?

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Im really torn here, but as someone who almost exclusively plays cloaking classes on combatant branches, here is my insight. 
+/- Support.

Okay, for the +:

It is kinda one sided if you are called in a bad spot, leading to you having to kamikaze at enemies to fight them in one last blaze of glory.

There are rooms in which if you know a cloaked unit is in, you can pretty easily sweep it with something to check, most classes have switched to automatic weapons since well, RIP everything else.

This could make combat easier for branches who just simply dont have thermals, which for many results in the same obnoxious "spray the room with lead" shit.

Cloakers, even some of the best, can and will still fuck up eventually, and you can pick up on that and attack then. Most of us gravitate towards hcz and LCZ, which is just a shit ton of hallways, so we are bound to be shot or run into.

For the -:

There are...SO MANY fucking rooms where as a sneaky boy you can essentially cease your existence for fun. Usually it can be as simple as hop on a prop or crouch or something. Even in old d block I tried to coordinate a bunch of gensec to sweep a room and it took about 15 minutes or so, and only ended when the infil uncloaked WILLINGLY. In large rooms, you are pretty invincible, and with the current state of weapons, any item good for sweeping will not do much to a low health pool anyways. 

Lore wise, why wouldn't a heavily armed group of task forces and insurgents have thermal goggles when they consistently interact with enemies and anomalies who can turn invisible? The site has 966 on it, thermals are probably standard kit. 

I really dont feel like being a 125 100 piece of hollow glass with an assault rifle. This encourages the sneaking sure, but like...what about all the stuff the sneaking is supposed to get you to? Like, do I just bunnyhop around cloaked for half an hour, scared to reveal myself for fear of being shot to death and ultimately accomplishing nothing? I'm wayyyyyy too impulsive for that.

Being able to have avoided a thermal call out is a huge point of pride. Walking through the site for hours and tearing it apart invisibly as infil, or being like a ghost hunting GOI at every turn, never seen but the damage certainly is as pathfinder, but never being caught? MMM, shit makes me feel like a fucking NINJA. 

To be fair, we all would be jumped if caught out alone in the middle of a bunch of enemies. Cloaking at least lets you decide WHERE that place is gonna be, and they usually advert thermals, then the reason. THey aren't valid until said reason, so you get anywhere from like, 3-7 seconds to fucking book it to safety, because suddenly all bets are off and it really doesn't matter who you run into, just that you need to get to safety and wait.

Crossfire happens everywhere. This is site 50, if I don't hear a gunshot every minute or two, I get paranoid. Fucking feel like im being watched every time. Sooooooo, I am bound to be shot in the chest while running around finessing and flanking, and then what? I can take being hurt, a missed bullet hitting me in the background of a fight probably wont be that noticeable. ME suddenly appearing out of thin air because of that, would be.

Implementing the new system would be an entire bitch and a half, because its true, we HAVE always done it this way. Changing it will require weeks, even months, of implementation for a lot of people, confusion will run rampant. What happens when an older player comes back and then makes sits about cloakers not uncloaking when he hits a thermal bind? How about the 14 people now flooding OOC to tell him "nah we dont do that" and explaining what fuck do?

 

Im leaning more - than + but I am not entirely opposed.

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Heavy -Support

Thermals are added for a reason and that is to make it known to MTF and other units that there is a cloaked unit and it gives a precise location of where it is. Having to just rely on spraying brings a very unfair balance and ruins gameplay as you will have to shoot all your ammo to see if you hit something and if you dont have an LMG they can just uncloak and kill you while you reload. Also there are many rules that would need to be changed such as cloakers being unable to uncuff people while cloaked.

I would change this if you rephrased it to the MOTD adding a timer to when thermals must be taken off (10 minutes is my standpoint) If a cloaker isnt called between that time period then thermals must be turned off and they can cloak again. Also if a cloaker is called out again then there should be an advert for it to prevent confusion and arguments in OOC ([Thermals] Cloaker sighted again)

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On 11/8/2021 at 8:01 AM, Phillers said:

In short : Yes. 

 

I'm going to be entirely fair with you, I forgot about the dolos. Best situation I think would be to just nerf it's health/armour. I think this would definetely make the dolos a more formiddable threath to MTF though.
 

I think the way that you solve this problem is the same way it is fixed currently : You have to call staff if you think they are AFK somewhere. 
Outside of this, I think it's fair to lower the 966 slots to 2, as this would be a quite significant buff to them.

You forgot about 2191, with this combined with his healing a decent 2191 player would be nigh unstoppable.

On 11/8/2021 at 8:01 AM, Phillers said:

 

 

Edited by Dodo278
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On 11/8/2021 at 4:35 PM, Veesus said:

Also, on the topic of mechanically based solutions: a way to counterbalance the removal of thermals would be to implement something similar to how team fortress 2s cloak works. When the cloaker bumps into a player or gets damaged they would become partially visible for a fraction of a second. This would make it easier to secure a kill on cloakers even without thermals, once you do manage to pin them down.

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while this would be a cool idea. a slight problem i see with this

If you are holding a weapon and the TFA Crosshair crosses over an enemy (cloaked or not) it switches to red

What's the point of spraying and looking for a cloaker when you just have to scan the area like a sentry gun from team fortress 2!

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-support 
For the simple fact that 2191,966, and Dolos would either have to be completely reworked or become unstoppable. This doesn't feel very thought out for the tankier stealth classes in the server right now. Which contrary to popular belief, do get played often. If these classes lost one of the main balancing factors against them they would take over the server. I just don't see this working lore wise, where a Site houses 966, and definitely not working gameplay wise.

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On 11/8/2021 at 2:03 PM, Right Twix Bar said:

Like Phill has said, a nerf to the cloaking jobs would be required. I honestly feel something like 150 | 50 would be the max for normal cloaking jobs. Two exceptions being 966, who should probably have something like 250 - 400 health, and Dolos, which should have something like 200 - 300 | 50 - 100 (because of the teleport and insta-kill). 

Overall, this would make cloaking jobs much more interesting.
And add the possibility for a TF2 Spy type job

+Support

 

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