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General Suggestion - MOTD rule change/clarification on 912 - Denied


Ya Boi Sawrunner

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What are you suggesting? - Make it to where 912 listens to and does not harass ANY foundation combatant, since trying to help as a RIS or MMF can be a pain in the dick when people take 912 too seriously and jump you while you are helping. Admittedly, it would make the rule set cleaner as well, as putting "foundation combatant" looks better than "gensec or mtf personnel" More broad, yet far more specific.

How would this change better the server? - Allow players of MMF, RIS, and other similar classes to work with rather than against 912's. I have seen players attempt to kill 912 simply because he is taking the rules too literally and attacking people on his side. Its a mess. 

Are there any disadvantages of making this change to the server? If so, explain. - None. I can't see a single downside.

Who would this change mostly benefit? - Foundation Combatants who need their firearm or other weapons ready but are not MTF or GENSEC. 

Please link any workshop content, screenshots, or anything that you think may be helpful to those who view this suggestion - N/A

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+support 

There have been issues before where 912 takes advantage of the wording of the rules and hits MMF with its baton while they are protecting d block, to the point where it became such an issue that it was brought to high command.

Edit: May I add that according to the command who reported this, the 912 players in question were just stunning the MMF, not even cuffing them. Not much RP to be had there even if they do cuff them as they are required to turn them into security/MTF, at which point they'll undoubtedly be released by the latter with no further interaction.

Edited by Loaff
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-Support.
912 is one of the few safe class SCP's that actually gets to do some sort of RP around the site. Changing the rule in such a way would make it so 912 is purely beneficial to the foundation in any kind of firefight, and would lower the amount of actual RP the job gets.
I don't think that 912 should be purely cooperative with the Foundation. SCP-912 is just that, a SCP, not a buffed up GENSEC with a police baton.

EDIT : Oh BTW, if 912 is annoying you, just get literally any GENSEC of MTF to tell it to leave. It'll have to abide by their orders.

Edited by Phillers
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+Support 

912 has ruined a few GOI infiltration events because guns were out. It’s a pain as they were undercover and this rule would really help combatants fight against really strict 912s.

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- Support

In lore, SCP 912 attacks anyone not wearing a specific police department's uniform, meaning that if it ran into a regular guard at the Foundation, it would attack that guard. For the purposes of the server, we've obviously changed the rule to allow SCP 912 to both listen to, and respect GENSEC and MTF authority. Changing the rule would further allow SCP 912 to be a sole benefit to Foundation forces, however it would reduce SCP 912's RP ability. This rule was intentionally written to force those players with weapons around SCP 912 to be careful, as those not specifically in GENSEC or MTF would be vulnerable to 912 attempting to arrest them.

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1 hour ago, Rookieblue said:

- Support

In lore, SCP 912 attacks anyone not wearing a specific police department's uniform, meaning that if it ran into a regular guard at the Foundation, it would attack that guard. For the purposes of the server, we've obviously changed the rule to allow SCP 912 to both listen to, and respect GENSEC and MTF authority. Changing the rule would further allow SCP 912 to be a sole benefit to Foundation forces, however it would reduce SCP 912's RP ability. This rule was intentionally written to force those players with weapons around SCP 912 to be careful, as those not specifically in GENSEC or MTF would be vulnerable to 912 attempting to arrest them.

 

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10 hours ago, Ya Boi Sawrunner said:

Are there any disadvantages of making this change to the server? If so, explain. - None. I can't see a single downside.

Taken directly from https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-912

The downside is that it would break the entirety of SCP-912's lore. Many folks enjoy combat as a roleplay while others  enjoy reading SCP wikia articles and roleplaying around standardized understood rules. This is clearly an intended RP mechanic. Semi-serious, not Breach.

912-1.jpg

912-2.jpg

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I mean, to be fair, the majority of foundation combatants look like gensec or mtf anyways, and RIS isn't even human so 912 wouldn't bother it anyways. 

2 hours ago, Zombinator said:

Taken directly from https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-912

The downside is that it would break the entirety of SCP-912's lore. Many folks enjoy combat as a roleplay while others  enjoy reading SCP wikia articles and roleplaying around standardized understood rules. This is clearly an intended RP mechanic. Semi-serious, not Breach.

912-1.jpg

912-2.jpg

I mean if you wanna get that technical the only people who should be able to order it around would have to wear that police uniform. We already bent his lore for server convenience, saying he doesn't fuck with someone who looks like an MTF and a robot isn't really a stretch. 

8 hours ago, Rookieblue said:

- Support

In lore, SCP 912 attacks anyone not wearing a specific police department's uniform, meaning that if it ran into a regular guard at the Foundation, it would attack that guard. For the purposes of the server, we've obviously changed the rule to allow SCP 912 to both listen to, and respect GENSEC and MTF authority. Changing the rule would further allow SCP 912 to be a sole benefit to Foundation forces, however it would reduce SCP 912's RP ability. This rule was intentionally written to force those players with weapons around SCP 912 to be careful, as those not specifically in GENSEC or MTF would be vulnerable to 912 attempting to arrest them.

So you are saying, that the once in a blue moon when someone hops onto 912 to RP instead of just helping gensec, minging, tryna get hostages, or be a nuisance, that taking away 2 classes will REALLY detriment it that much? It can still force non combatants all over to have to watch out for him, but if a RIS is trying to escort a researcher and proceeds to get jumped its just silly. 

9 hours ago, Phillers said:

-Support.
912 is one of the few safe class SCP's that actually gets to do some sort of RP around the site. Changing the rule in such a way would make it so 912 is purely beneficial to the foundation in any kind of firefight, and would lower the amount of actual RP the job gets.
I don't think that 912 should be purely cooperative with the Foundation. SCP-912 is just that, a SCP, not a buffed up GENSEC with a police baton.

The amount of RP you get out of being stunned and cuffed is about the same amount of RP I get out of getting up from my keyboard and taking a nap on my couch. With the amount of SCPs harmful to the foundation, and the many scps under the control of players that can be allied with it, and this is all forgetting the fact that the majority of 912 players play in a way that fits this suggestion as is, how is it so much of a rp problem to let 2 classes slide by on this?

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15 hours ago, Ya Boi Sawrunner said:

I mean, to be fair, the majority of foundation combatants look like gensec or mtf anyways, and RIS isn't even human so 912 wouldn't bother it anyways. 

Policemen have more than a uniform, they have badges and authority. MMF are just janitors with guns. RIS is a tool built by researchers to protect them. Neither are equivalent to authority-wielding officers with badges.

15 hours ago, Ya Boi Sawrunner said:

I mean if you wanna get that technical the only people who should be able to order it around would have to wear that police uniform. We already bent his lore for server convenience, saying he doesn't fuck with someone who looks like an MTF and a robot isn't really a stretch. 

Under this logic SCP-912 shouldn't be allowed in D-Block and shouldn't obey anyone on-site. Just slap him in a containment cell and call it a day, following that thinking.

15 hours ago, Ya Boi Sawrunner said:

So you are saying, that the once in a blue moon when someone hops onto 912 to RP instead of just helping gensec, minging, tryna get hostages, or be a nuisance, that taking away 2 classes will REALLY detriment it that much? It can still force non combatants all over to have to watch out for him, but if a RIS is trying to escort a researcher and proceeds to get jumped its just silly. 

The infrequency of players performing legitimate roleplay on this server merits its own post and discussion. RIS and MMF need to be on the lookout for SCPs, this is an **SCP-RP** server after all. SCP-912 is an ***SCP*** and deserves to have people keep an eye on him. Just like SCP-076-2, weapons out around SCP-912 cause a reaction. The fact that SCP-912 can be successfully utilized by Foundation staff is an intended roleplay and gameplay mechanic, it is hardly silly just because you don't seem to understand it. I hope this post helps clarify.

15 hours ago, Ya Boi Sawrunner said:

The amount of RP you get out of being stunned and cuffed is about the same amount of RP I get out of getting up from my keyboard and taking a nap on my couch. With the amount of SCPs harmful to the foundation, and the many scps under the control of players that can be allied with it, and this is all forgetting the fact that the majority of 912 players play in a way that fits this suggestion as is, how is it so much of a rp problem to let 2 classes slide by on this?

Following wiki SCP lore and established gameplay rules definitely accents roleplay for many people, I'm sorry its not your cup of tea. Being arrested and handed over to an MTF is interesting and exciting to some folks, many consider it amusing. The majority of SCP-912 players are breaking the rules according to you. The !motd stipulates a *must*:


"SCP-912 must order any non-MTF or non-GENSEC personnel to put away their weapons.
If the player fails to put away their weapons 912 can attack with its baton until the player puts the weapon away.
If the player draws their weapon again 912 may then use his baton to stun and arrest the player, even if they put their weapon away."

This means that you are literally saying that the majority of SCP-912 players ignore a *must* and commit FailRP. I don't encourage rule-breaking. Using a bind to motion for someone to put a weapon away and giving them 5 seconds to comply is not only polite, its well within RP and !motd stipulations.

 

15 hours ago, Ya Boi Sawrunner said:

how is it so much of a rp problem to let 2 classes slide by on this?

How is it so much of a combat gameplay problem to keep an eye on what jobs and SCPs are near you and putting your weapon away accordingly? Watching chat or listening to people speak is part of combat RP and situational awareness is a bare-minimum requirement.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

On 11/1/2021 at 10:29 AM, Loaff said:

There have been issues before where 912 takes advantage of the wording of the rules and hits MMF with its baton while they are protecting d block, to the point where it became such an issue that it was brought to high command.

"Taking advantage" sounds a lot like following intended rules to avoid FailRP warnings instead of choosing to commit teaming.
 

On 11/1/2021 at 10:29 AM, Loaff said:

Edit: May I add that according to the command who reported this, the 912 players in question were just stunning the MMF, not even cuffing them. Not much RP to be had there even if they do cuff them as they are required to turn them into security/MTF, at which point they'll undoubtedly be released by the latter with no further interaction.

From the !motd:

"If the player fails to put away their weapons 912 can attack with its baton until the player puts the weapon away.
If the player draws their weapon again 912 may then use his baton to stun and arrest the player, even if they put their weapon away.
SCP-912 may attempt to arrest rule breakers and bring them to GENSEC or MTF personnel.
SCP-912 must comply with any orders given to it by GENSEC or MTF personnel."

The wording from the !motd states that he *must* ask them to put it away, that he *can* hit them with his baton and that he *may* arrest them. You're attempting to make an issue of someone following the rules and choosing to be lenient in lieu of arresting. A shame that wasn't brought to the attention of your command as well.

As far as "undoubtedly" being released, they aren't always. Its up to the discretion of the GENSEC or MTF what to do with the rule breaker. Any number of roleplay scenarios can occur after this, it is up to the imagination and wishes of those involved in the RP. Providing open-ended RP opportunities for people is a cornerstone of good gameplay. As Rookieblue, the ***HEAD OF STAFF*** has mentioned, these mechanics are all working as intended.

I was a bit on the fence before, but this thread has solidified my opinion as a whoppingly decisive

-SUPPORT

 

On 11/1/2021 at 11:09 AM, Rookieblue said:

- Support

In lore, SCP 912 attacks anyone not wearing a specific police department's uniform, meaning that if it ran into a regular guard at the Foundation, it would attack that guard. For the purposes of the server, we've obviously changed the rule to allow SCP 912 to both listen to, and respect GENSEC and MTF authority. Changing the rule would further allow SCP 912 to be a sole benefit to Foundation forces, however it would reduce SCP 912's RP ability. This rule was intentionally written to force those players with weapons around SCP 912 to be careful, as those not specifically in GENSEC or MTF would be vulnerable to 912 attempting to arrest them.

 

912-3.jpg

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3 hours ago, Zombinator said:

Policemen have more than a uniform, they have badges and authority. MMF are just janitors with guns. RIS is a tool built by researchers to protect them. Neither are equivalent to authority-wielding officers with badges.

Under this logic SCP-912 shouldn't be allowed in D-Block and shouldn't obey anyone on-site. Just slap him in a containment cell and call it a day, following that thinking.

The infrequency of players performing legitimate roleplay on this server merits its own post and discussion. RIS and MMF need to be on the lookout for SCPs, this is an **SCP-RP** server after all. SCP-912 is an ***SCP*** and deserves to have people keep an eye on him. Just like SCP-076-2, weapons out around SCP-912 cause a reaction. The fact that SCP-912 can be successfully utilized by Foundation staff is an intended roleplay and gameplay mechanic, it is hardly silly just because you don't seem to understand it. I hope this post helps clarify.

Following wiki SCP lore and established gameplay rules definitely accents roleplay for many people, I'm sorry its not your cup of tea. Being arrested and handed over to an MTF is interesting and exciting to some folks, many consider it amusing. The majority of SCP-912 players are breaking the rules according to you. The !motd stipulates a *must*:


"SCP-912 must order any non-MTF or non-GENSEC personnel to put away their weapons.
If the player fails to put away their weapons 912 can attack with its baton until the player puts the weapon away.
If the player draws their weapon again 912 may then use his baton to stun and arrest the player, even if they put their weapon away."

This means that you are literally saying that the majority of SCP-912 players ignore a *must* and commit FailRP. I don't encourage rule-breaking. Using a bind to motion for someone to put a weapon away and giving them 5 seconds to comply is not only polite, its well within RP and !motd stipulations.

 

How is it so much of a combat gameplay problem to keep an eye on what jobs and SCPs are near you and putting your weapon away accordingly? Watching chat or listening to people speak is part of combat RP and situational awareness is a bare-minimum requirement.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

"Taking advantage" sounds a lot like following intended rules to avoid FailRP warnings instead of choosing to commit teaming.
 

From the !motd:

"If the player fails to put away their weapons 912 can attack with its baton until the player puts the weapon away.
If the player draws their weapon again 912 may then use his baton to stun and arrest the player, even if they put their weapon away.
SCP-912 may attempt to arrest rule breakers and bring them to GENSEC or MTF personnel.
SCP-912 must comply with any orders given to it by GENSEC or MTF personnel."

The wording from the !motd states that he *must* ask them to put it away, that he *can* hit them with his baton and that he *may* arrest them. You're attempting to make an issue of someone following the rules and choosing to be lenient in lieu of arresting. A shame that wasn't brought to the attention of your command as well.

As far as "undoubtedly" being released, they aren't always. Its up to the discretion of the GENSEC or MTF what to do with the rule breaker. Any number of roleplay scenarios can occur after this, it is up to the imagination and wishes of those involved in the RP. Providing open-ended RP opportunities for people is a cornerstone of good gameplay. As Rookieblue, the ***HEAD OF STAFF*** has mentioned, these mechanics are all working as intended.

I was a bit on the fence before, but this thread has solidified my opinion as a whoppingly decisive

-SUPPORT

 

 

912-3.jpg

So you are saying just because its "lore compliant" its fine? People have better shit to do than to track an scp who is usually on their side in active combat situations or chill ones. I am not constantly eyeing up the chat either to see someone hit a bind. People who consider being hit by a baton with concerningly long range, then forced to be unable to move whilst being cuffed are weirdos. Like, do you play games to be a scarecrow? No. I don't see the "many" people you are talking about, as the vast majority of players find 912 to be a nuisance against, and a convenience for, those near it. In his current state, if more people played like how you seem to want him to be played, 912 would be terminated. Constantly. He is already a target for D-Class, so keeping him in his current state can paint more of a target on his back. What happens if he cuffs command or something? SF? They don't ask questions, they will light him up. You don't gotta patronize everyone because you want him to nail every rule perfectly. He is very clearly on the side of the foundation seeing in how he answers to MTF and Gensec specifically. Saying he is not is just silly. Can he be a pain to them at times, yes. Can he be incredibly beneficial to them, also yes. Thats how every foundation SCP is. They can get in the way or be a lifesaver. 

Honestly anybody who likes the infamous "sit in a cell rp" or just being cuffed and dragged around are weird. Like you can just go AFK for the same experience roughly. 

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On 11/1/2021 at 4:05 PM, Shin said:

+support

 

theres a difference between being a dick and being an ally imo

I remember I was just playing MMF chilling then 912 was came up to me, beat my ass and I was cuffed for like 20 minutes

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On 11/1/2021 at 11:09 AM, Rookieblue said:

- Support

In lore, SCP 912 attacks anyone not wearing a specific police department's uniform, meaning that if it ran into a regular guard at the Foundation, it would attack that guard. For the purposes of the server, we've obviously changed the rule to allow SCP 912 to both listen to, and respect GENSEC and MTF authority. Changing the rule would further allow SCP 912 to be a sole benefit to Foundation forces, however it would reduce SCP 912's RP ability. This rule was intentionally written to force those players with weapons around SCP 912 to be careful, as those not specifically in GENSEC or MTF would be vulnerable to 912 attempting to arrest them.

 

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21 hours ago, Ya Boi Sawrunner said:

People have better shit to do than to track an scp who is usually on their side in active combat situations or chill ones. I am not constantly eyeing up the chat either to see someone hit a bind.

Sounds like a skill issue.

21 hours ago, Ya Boi Sawrunner said:

What happens if he cuffs command or something? SF? They don't ask questions, they will light him up.

They KOS him.
 

 

21 hours ago, Ya Boi Sawrunner said:

You don't gotta patronize everyone because you want him to nail every rule perfectly.

 

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On 11/2/2021 at 9:08 PM, Mary said:

+Support
I've seen a ppor MMF get bullied by 912 adn taken when D-Class were running around LCZ. Same thing goes for ACM and other combatants.

 

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On 11/1/2021 at 11:29 AM, Loaff said:

+support 

There have been issues before where 912 takes advantage of the wording of the rules and hits MMF with its baton while they are protecting d block, to the point where it became such an issue that it was brought to high command.

Edit: May I add that according to the command who reported this, the 912 players in question were just stunning the MMF, not even cuffing them. Not much RP to be had there even if they do cuff them as they are required to turn them into security/MTF, at which point they'll undoubtedly be released by the latter with no further interaction.

+ Support 

Note: Very Reasonable.

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+Support

-(ACM)I have been in D-block to halt d-class riots and been arrested by 912 and it makes it impossible to do my job when he looks for any reason to arrest....
-912 admits the rules are stupid but still continues to "follow" them
-If im squadding with MTF and we retake d-block he is allowed to arrest me.... doesnt make much sense
-All i ask is that they make a change to all combatants can have weapons in d-block and take a look at 912's rules again please and thank you!
(SIDE NOTE: A lot of sits have happened because of this so this would lessen the workload of the admins)

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On 11/1/2021 at 3:09 PM, Rookieblue said:

- Support

In lore, SCP 912 attacks anyone not wearing a specific police department's uniform, meaning that if it ran into a regular guard at the Foundation, it would attack that guard. For the purposes of the server, we've obviously changed the rule to allow SCP 912 to both listen to, and respect GENSEC and MTF authority. Changing the rule would further allow SCP 912 to be a sole benefit to Foundation forces, however it would reduce SCP 912's RP ability. This rule was intentionally written to force those players with weapons around SCP 912 to be careful, as those not specifically in GENSEC or MTF would be vulnerable to 912 attempting to arrest them.

 

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