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Judge/ Defendant / Prosecution role reform - Denied


williams245678

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*Reposting this because there was more there were some points id like to make clear below I didnt get the chance to while the post was active because I was in the middle of PCSing to another country. Skip to bottom to see clarification points*

 

What you want to see? - 

OLD

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Judge / Defendant / Prosecutor

You can only have a pistol for self-defense.!

You cannot commit a crime while in these classes.

Your job is to help people get out of jail, So RP situations out!

The judge cannot deal with a friend or individual they know this is classed as Fail RP. Your judge whitelist will be removed.

The judge must have a valid RP reason for setting someone free from jail.

If someone is not coming to a trial, you must advert a warning toward them 3 times prior to dismissing the case.

Adverts must be at least two minutes apart.

You cannot accept bribes. However, you can charge people 25k for a court case and for you to Defend/Prosecute a person. Court cases can cost up to 75k.

______________________________________________________________________________________________NEW

You can  have class 1-3 Weapons for self-defense.

No one is above the law to include the Judge and other GOV. 

Failure to appear in court, after being summoned (3 times), will result in a fine. Failure to pay fine to the courts is considered FailRP. 

Fines can roll over and collect interest if person does not pay within 8 years (480s). Payment plans are authorized. 

Regardless of the offense, fines to the courts cannot exceed 5MIL.

While Judge is on, Courthouse belongs to Judge and not D.O.C. 

The Judge may order anyone to leave the courthouse if they are disrupting said trial, or being a general nuisance.

The Judge is in charge of appointing Bailiffs and can dismiss a Bailiff for any reason. The Judge may not force anyone to be Bailiff.

When EMS is on the Judge can order a psych eval on a suspect (if EMS agrees) and place the suspect in EMS care. EMS will then be responsible for time served as suspect will be released once deemed not a threat to public.

The Judge roll is a State Judge.  The Supreme Courts of North Carolina. All decisions are final. 

Decisions CAN be appealed if there is new found evidence. Or if there is concrete evidence of direct corruption. If judge is found being corrupted and this corruption directly influenced the verdict, which goes against concrete evidence then Judge whitelist is removed from said player.

Each Judge (depending on whos on) can decide what they will and will not accept as evidence. This must be established before each trial as to not waste time. The Judge cannot switch keep switching what is and what is not accepted evidence. This can be grounds for corruption.

The Judge cannot order around GOV however failure to follow a Court Order will result in a summons to court.

Each Judge must set Courtroom rules in 3DTEXTCHAT. Breaking only these rules will result in contempt. Any rule not placed is not considered Contempt unless said person is warned three times to cease and dismiss behavior. 

If the Prosecution does not have evidence the Prosecution must drop said charges.

Everyone including the prosecution has a right to a lawyer.

If the Arresting Officer cannot appear in court they must have a lawyer, or "Prosecutor" represent them with given evidence. The suspect may have a lawyer or "Defense" but is required to appear in court (For plea reasons). This is to ensure GOV is not tied up with court cases after every arrest. 

Here is the official flow of law: !MOTD>SOP>Federal Law> State Law> Local Law (made by Pres).

Interrupting a court case with aggravated circumstances (gun, weapon, etc.) is auto K.O.S. 

Jury duty must be requested by the Defense at the beginning of the trial. The judge has SIX (6) minutes to form a Jury of 4-8 players. This means the Jury must be in the courthouse and ready to listen in within 6 minutes. During this time the suspect must be placed in a holding cell inside the D.O.C (next to the sentencing person) awaiting trial.

The Suspect acknowledges waiver of rights to speedy trial if requesting a Jury Trial.

If the Jury fails to appear within 6 minutes then the Judge must continue on with the trial.

The Suspect does not get reduced sentence for "Time Served' while waiting for a Jury after requesting. 

 

There is no punishment for not showing up to Jury Duty (cannot force people to RP).

Only Civilian role may be called to Jury Duty.

The Judge must declare a mistrial if the verdict clearly shows biased or favoritism. Failure to due so is corruption and leads to whitelist removal.

After three overruled objections from one side (Prosecution, or Defense) the Judge can decide to end the case (As to save time). If the overruled objection is coming from the defense, the suspect will be jailed for said charges. If the objection is coming from the prosecution, the suspects charges will be dismissed.

 

In order to file a civil suit there most be concrete evidence (video proof, audio, or photographic) presented to the courts before the Judge can accept. 

 

Once the prosecution sets the charges the charges cannot be changed during trial. The person is either found guilty of said charges, or innocent. Choose wisely. 

 

GOV failure to pay fines to the court can result in a vote off the job (Judge must state reason as "FailRP" and Judge must first advertise the fine 3 times with two minutes in-between each advert).

 

Fines can only be issued to GOV through civil court, or contempt of court.

 

(These are just some additions with more to come later)

 

Why should we add it? - Judge/Prosecutor/Defendant  is beginning to be heavily used and this will broaden the RP and use of the Judicial role. This also eliminates any room for gray areas or confusion.

What are the advantages of having this? - The Judge role will be taken more seriously, Court cases will be way faster, eliminates gray area of what people can and cannot do on Judge roll.

Who is it mainly for? -  The rights of the people. Checks and balances within the server.

Links to any content -  N/A

 

Other: Also it would be nice if we can add a "U.S Attorney" role as a whitelist job Under S.S role and a State Attorney General role under PD. 

 

 The U.S. Attorney General represents the United States in litigation, oversees federal prosecutors, and advises the President and heads of federal, executive departments on legal matters. The U.S Attorney does not deal with state cases and reports directly to the S.S High Command. The U.S Attorney can reject a Presidential law and remove it if it is unconstitutional. The U.S Attorney  is responsible for representing the Federal GOV and may act on its behalf in all legal proceedings in which the Federal GOV is a party.

State attorneys general represent their states in litigation, oversee prosecutors, and advise members of their states' executive branches on legal matters. The State Attorney reports directly to State GOV High Command. The State Attorney  is responsible for representing any GOV under the State and may act on its behalf in all legal proceedings in which the State is a party. The State Attorney is responsible for setting plea deals before a trial, and is charged with the burden of proof if suspect wants to go to court. 

 

 

Feel free to leave suggestions in comments to add to or take away from my suggestions.

 

 

Clarification points:

 [GL] Locus said:
-Support 
"While Judge is on, Courthouse belongs to Judge and not D.O.C. " It is within a prison there for by forfeit it would fall under DOC as its apart of the prison and within the grounds of the prison which in return is officially owned by the state trooper's which would mean that the judge would be able to just claim land if you think that they should be allow to own the courthouse while its on a state building.

"The Judge cannot order around GOV however failure to follow a Court Order will result in a summons to court." Now this one is just straight up contradictory you say the judge cannon order around gov but than say they can order or "summon" them to court which is the same as ordering it just in a reskinned way of saying it. 

"The Judge is in charge of appointing Bailiffs and can dismiss a Bailiff for any reason. The Judge may not force anyone to be Bailiff." This would fall to DOC/Other Government agency's. 
 
"The Judge may order anyone to leave the courthouse if they are disrupting said trial, or being a general nuisance." Once again the grounds are owned by state and upkept by DOC and other agencies if DOC needs assistance or if other agencies wish to help out DOC. Which means you couldn't just kick out anyone from the courthouse as this would than leave a loophole where you could attempt to kick out DOC and State Officials.   

"GOV failure to pay fines to the court can result in a vote off the job (Judge must state reason as "FailRP" and Judge must first advertise the fine 3 times with two minutes in-between each advert)." Demotion off jobs is meant to only be done by that specific Departments command or a staff member not a random judge. This would give the judge to much power as we are a semi-serious not a serious RP as @Lime King has mentioned before. 

"Fines can roll over and collect interest if person does not pay within 8 years (480s). Payment plans are authorized. 

Regardless of the offense, fines to the courts cannot exceed 5MIL."  Now this one would mean that the judge has more power to fine people than the PD does which in it self would lead to many problems a few I can even think of right now such as a judge deciding to fine a person 4,999,999. This also once again is a semi-serious server. 

 

______________________________________________________________________________________________

My Response:

"No one is above the law to include the Judge and other GOV. " Due to the way systems are set up within the server. You would need a staff member to get a corrupt a judge off the job which is already how it is. This part is just something that is already here just reworded. 

"There is no punishment for not showing up to Jury Duty (cannot force people to RP)." As you said here you cannot force people to RP but within this suggestion you wish to force the DOC/State to hand their own facilities over to the judge which would be in its own way forcing an RP  issues that can easily lead to being a argument when you try to kick a DOC member. 


There wouldn't be an argument with this law. If D.O.C or another member of GOV is interrupting a court case (which happens all the time) they can and should be thrown out of the court room. 9/10X I have to drop the charges because the disruptions blocks the case from continuing. 

 

HOWEVER -

 

You do bring up a very interesting point. The Court House should physically be separate from the D.O.C. This way there way less distraction from people being arrested (pulling up with loud sirens, people arguing while being arrested, gunshots happening because a criminal is trying to free their family from being put in jail). Also during prison riots/escapes the courts and the people in the courts wont be put in direct danger.

 

- Being summoned to court because of concrete evidence against you, or being ordered to do something such as an arrest, etc. by the courts because of concrete evidence and actual RP'd out events is completely different than me telling a cop to do something just because I have direct ordering authority over them. 

 

- Yes only GOV can protect other GOV, however the judge should have the authority, just like in real life, to deny or accept who the Bailiff in their court room is. This is to prevent mingy behavior which has consistently been a problem in the courts which delays the trials of people and waste time. 

 

ALSO

 

When the Bailiff is working for the Judge they are to either directly follow all orders from the Judge (no one else) or give up their job as Bailiff. Meaning FBI High Command, PD High Command, etc cannot just walk into the court house and order the Bailiff around (which has happened before).

 

-The Judge should most definitely be able to kick anyone out who is interrupting a trial regardless of their occupation. There must be some form of order in the courts especially during a trial. The point that needs to be made here which is obvious is D.O.C does not run the Courts. If they did the Judicial branch would fall under them. The courts is a separate entity on its own. Its main goal in the RP is to prevent people from going to jail. If I have D.O.C coming in here intimidating people, causing a loud disturbance, pissing off my defendants and prosecution, and overall just causing troubles in the Court House then this is straight up grounds to have them removed from the courts. This has happened plenty of times also.

 

- Yes this is because of a more recent serious case. GOV consistently gets found guilty in civil cases and because they are GOV and cannot be arrested they just simply refuse a court order to either appear in court, or, once found guilty, pay the plaintiff their dues. This actually had a very long sit with a senior admin who basically concluded "GOV officials can break the law and disobey the courts by refusing to show up, and not paying a fine because they cannot be arrested . However Civilians cannot do this because they can be arrested". Which we both agreed, there's nothing we can do about it now, so come to the forums and suggest an improvement to the !MOTD to avoid this. Hence why im here.

 

6 minutes is more than enough time for anyone to swing by the court house, pay their dues, and be on their way. But to allow GOV to just blatantly disobey the law, especially when they were found guilty in the court of law, is just failRP. Bringing this up because its a consistent issue. Also when reported to other GOV high command its just ignored. Tons of people have came to court with enough evidence and won and GOV just refused to pay for the damages in the civil suit and people have made said sits over it and was basically told theres nothing they can do about it. 

 

-If the judge decides to fine someone $4,999,999 then that person would definitely think twice before doing that offense again. The reason why the number is so high is because civil suits do not result in jail time (most of the time its against GOV or sometimes even GOV on GOV civil suits) and fining someone $4,999 they'll just commit the same crime again maybe even right infront of the judge. 

 

-The final one is just so it is in black and white that NO ONE is above the law. This is because people (and this has happened plenty of times almost everyday) act like they are above the law simply because they're high ranking etc. and would often order their subordinates to do illegal things (like wrongfully arrest my defendants, or wrongfully raid someones home, etc) which again all has happened way to many times... This rule mostly applies to enforce the checks and balances within the server.

 

 

-The no showing up for Jury Duty=not being punished is because I cannot just randomly pull someone from their own RP and place them into someone elses RP if they dont want to do it. 

 

HOWEVER 

 

If someone is suing another person (as they RP'd it out with them and have evidence of this person doing something and is pressing charges) then yes they can be summoned to court to stand trial as they already involved themselves by RPing with the person who is pressing said charges.

 

Now in regards to D.O.C "owning the courts" I will just have to go ahead and point out that they do not own the courts. If they owned the courts then there would be trials. They have no control over what the Judge can and cannot do/decide nor do they have any control over the defendants or prosecution. The Department of Corrections, in all honesty, is controlled by the warden. The warden runs the prison not the courts. Once the warden enters the court room, in the presence of the Judge, he is entering into the something he does not control, otherwise there would be no need for the court systems and the warden and district attorney can just lock people up.

 

ALSO

 

Regarding your point to this being a semi-serious RP. I agree. This is true, it is a semi-seriousRP however this is only argued whenever it benefits GOV jobs such as PD/SWATT/FBI etc. and quickly shot down whenever it benefits any other role. Just take a look at !MOTD. It almost seems like a legitimate Police-State. Assassins can't assassinate GOV Officials while they're in a GOV building? How did that even become apart of !MOTD. A lot of updating is needed because PD/SWATT/FBI/etc clearly feels as though they are untouchable. Think of this as direct checks and balances. Whenever a Judge is on, they should act right and stop ruining RP experiences for anyone else, the Judge is there to ensure they do it. A jail sentence is just like a warn, it literally has long term effects on a persons RP experience and sometimes people get locked up for the craziest things with random sentences never the same. The MOTD says PD cannot be corrupt. Since they starting to ignore that the Judge role needs certain powers to establish checks and balances.

 

This server is a semi-serious RP however the Executive branch seem to get carried away with the amount of power they have and use the guise of "Semi-serious" rp to rebuke anyone (such as the legislative branch, or judicial branch) to invoke a form of checks and balances. This blatant disregard to the norms of RP is detrimental to PR for the game, and often shrinks the number of new players to the game.

 

This suggestion is not just for the Jude/Defendant/Prosecution role, but to benefit the server as a whole be installing a balance for RP Harmony. RP shouldn't end once the cuffs are placed on someone's wrist.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, williams245678 said:

- Court room does not belong to DOC. The Court Room is adjacent to DOC. Earlier today YOBO set up a specific KOS/AOS sign infront of the actual prison cells. This KOS/AOS targeted the judicial role class by specifying only the Jude/Prosecution/Defendant will be KOS/AOS if they crossed the line into the cells. It is behavior like this where checks and balances need to come in play. 

 

ALSO 

 

Before setting up this sign an officer of the courts (Defendant) was replying to someone who was asking for a court case before being sentenced in the prison by mewy. Mewy stopped so the lawyer can talk with the person and YOBO barges in with his weapon aimed saying "get out before i shoot you". This is exactly why we need checks and balances.

 

- Judge cannot be told what to do by DOC . This is easily corruption. The judge can be reported for breaking the law/being corrupt etc. and get their whitelist removed by DOC is the executive branch. The Judge/Prosecution/Defendant role is the Judicial branch. two different things neither controls the other. One enforces laws and the other interpret and creates said law and decides what punishment is acceptable. The DOC has way less power in this server than GLPD. The DOC is literally bound to the prisons, state police are supposed to only patrol the outskirts. In this server GLPD>State Police which in itself is backwards.

 

Lets face the facts, people, such as YOBO, Pillow, and their subordinates minge hard while the Judge is on against said judge because there is no rules preventing them from doing it. One person gets found innocent and they start acting up. This is not just coming from me but multiple people including other low ranking PD (who some have refused to come forward because they "don't want to be demoted") have witnessed and were annoyed by it and admitted it.

 

These are just some of many rules that should be instated to prevent the executive branch from minging against the judicial branch and wasting everyone's time. Even calling sits on their behavior does absolutely nothing because they're not bound by rules like contempt of court, the commissioner/other person capable of demotion isnt on, etc.

So lets take this apart. The reason that the "executive" branch check and balances won't affect anything. The judge role while it does have some power and its power hasn't been a problem before its the way you act to the other departments/agencies. You try to say thats because your the judge this happens in game alot that you have more power than any department in the court room and the reason for the signs were  due to the fact you guys entered the jail it self which your meant to do but that dosn't change the fact the whole gated off section of land is D.O.C land.

-Support 
This post is just a repost of the post that was denied because you didn't like what happened to it. You should wait longer before you repost a suggestion.  

Also the judge trying to take power away from DOC would mean that your saying your above the law. The Law states that D.O.C is the property owner of the prison. The Court Room is in the Prison which by default means its a D.O.C Property and which in return means its state's land.

Edited by [GL] Locus
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1 hour ago, williams245678 said:

- Court room does not belong to DOC. The Court Room is adjacent to DOC. Earlier today YOBO set up a specific KOS/AOS sign infront of the actual prison cells. This KOS/AOS targeted the judicial role class by specifying only the Jude/Prosecution/Defendant will be KOS/AOS if they crossed the line into the cells. It is behavior like this where checks and balances need to come in play. 

 

ALSO 

 

Before setting up this sign an officer of the courts (Defendant) was replying to someone who was asking for a court case before being sentenced in the prison by mewy. Mewy stopped so the lawyer can talk with the person and YOBO barges in with his weapon aimed saying "get out before i shoot you". This is exactly why we need checks and balances.

 

- Judge cannot be told what to do by DOC . This is easily corruption. The judge can be reported for breaking the law/being corrupt etc. and get their whitelist removed by DOC is the executive branch. The Judge/Prosecution/Defendant role is the Judicial branch. two different things neither controls the other. One enforces laws and the other interpret and creates said law and decides what punishment is acceptable. The DOC has way less power in this server than GLPD. The DOC is literally bound to the prisons, state police are supposed to only patrol the outskirts. In this server GLPD>State Police which in itself is backwards.

 

Lets face the facts, people, such as YOBO, Pillow, and their subordinates minge hard while the Judge is on against said judge because there is no rules preventing them from doing it. One person gets found innocent and they start acting up. This is not just coming from me but multiple people including other low ranking PD (who some have refused to come forward because they "don't want to be demoted") have witnessed and were annoyed by it and admitted it.

 

These are just some of many rules that should be instated to prevent the executive branch from minging against the judicial branch and wasting everyone's time. Even calling sits on their behavior does absolutely nothing because they're not bound by rules like contempt of court, the commissioner/other person capable of demotion isnt on, etc.

Court Room Belongs to DOC PERIOD

Judge can be demoted off the job by DOC if deemed fit

Judge can not tell DOC To Leave the court room | DOC Can tell judge to leave court room or block it off for Trainings/Meetings

DOC can overrule any and all decisions made by Judge PERIOD

Judge cannot appoint or dismiss bailiffs. 

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2 minutes ago, King said:

Court Room Belongs to DOC PERIOD

Judge can be demoted off the job by DOC if deemed fit

Judge can not tell DOC To Leave the court room | DOC Can tell judge to leave court room or block it off for Trainings/Meetings

DOC can overrule any and all decisions made by Judge PERIOD

Judge cannot appoint or dismiss bailiffs. 

The Courthouse is DOC Property and DOC is State Property meaning DOC Command and State High Command can not be told to leave the Courtroom

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ill sadly have to go with -support i would love there to be lot more court roleplay but people in this server aren't really  serous role-players  thats why you see   cops and departments shooting unarmed people and no one giving rights ,  lick i agree  should have been tazed as least  he shouldn't have been targeted squad,  and i had to help them because i am gov.. also those videos you posted im pretty sure you could get your whitelist revoked as you attempt murder like 2 leos that is corruption on its own but it isnt a player report  

 

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13 hours ago, williams245678 said:

I dont think you guys understand the point. 

 

-DOC is not over the judge. The judge is not over DOC. No one is above the law. The judge is just the interpreter and sentence seeker of the law. The DOC/PD/SWATT/FBI/SS just ensure the law is being followed on the streets etc. When something happens they take the person to the Judicial branch (lawyers, judge, etc) and charge them to see if infact they are guilty without a reasonable doubt to the crime they are being accused of comitting...

 

 

-When DOC becomes mingey (see footage example below) this is where things get complicated. It is not my behavior as judge which is in question because I would have been demoted long ago if it was trust me, but when DOC and other government agencies disrespect peoples rp and time by barging in and shooting guns, interrupting, shutting down the courthouse for "training" and then not using said court house, etc. this all is not just effecting the judicial roles RP but everyone who is trying to RP out court in general. 

 

-Again this has happened multiple times and especially with people like Pillow who launched a legit coup de e'tat and ordered all of his subordinates to follow him. Even after it was over and he went full rogue he still had his subordinates protecting and following him around from the law.

 

-The judge is not trying to take power away from DOC. What im asking for is basic common law. Checks and balances are everywhere. For this RP to just completely disregard the RP life of civilians trying to have a good time in court by not enforcing standards for GOV who cannot be arrested (forcibly) or fined (forcibly) is just not the right answer regardless of the excuse of this being a "semi-serious RP".

 

-You have regular non-high command GOV officials who are to afraid to speak up about what happens because they will be "demoted" by people higher than them. There is clearly a problem and this is my solution. If anyone has another solution ill be glad to hear it but until then I fully support and stand by my decision. To only view this as benefiting the Judge is selfish. This benefits literally everyone in the server to include PD/DOC/SS/FBI/etc. as the more rules on the judicial branch the less gray area the judge has to play with.

 

-Id like to reiterate that DOC does not control the court house, and they certainly do not dictate what the Judge can and cannot do. The law does.  This is because the Court house is made up of the officers of the court not a building. Also if anyone, to include GOV, comes in minging during a trial I have every right to ask them to leave or hold them in contempt. This is not about me, this is about having respect for peoples right to due process. Ever since I started enforcing contempt by throwing out cases, the average time for court cases has dropped significantly. Before then an average case would take longer than a 8 year sentence because people would just argue back and forth between each other.

 

-There can be no Judicial branch without order. This is establishing said order.

 

-Also this is a repost with a reply to the comments from the last post. I was not able to reply because I was in the process of PCSing to South Korea and did not have acces to internet on my laptop.

 

Here are some videos showing the context of why we need said laws:

 

1. 

 

 

2.  

 

 

3.  

 

 

4.  

 

 

 

 

Compiled above is just some of the many different types of disruptive behavior demonstrated to the courts and why there needs to be a stronger checks and balance system other than "report to high command when they get on". 

-You can not Let Anyone Into Doc Without DOC Perms if they or online

-This situation with hankey he doesnt get a court case cause he was corrupt on Defendant

-And DOC is Higher than you 

-Support

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-Support

Again you have already put in a suggestion similar to this and that was denied. This is a semi serious RP server, as much as we would like to see more ambiguity within the server I just don''t see this suggestion making that happen. You do have some good points that would make some great additions to the judge but most of what you are saying is bypassing what people have grinded for, Like saying that the bailiff has power over high command makes no sense as you have said that you can appoint the bailiff to be anyone you want. I understand that you want more RP on the server and that's fine but you want to impose a system to where the judge is essentially "The Law". If anything the videos that you uploaded can get you warned for breaking server rules such as Corruption and Respawning with EMS on with the video that you provided as "evidence" for this suggestion
https://youtu.be/zrpudMf3OVA

 

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Correct me if im wrong but if you moved the courthouse to say across the street wouldnt it all be better since you aren’t sharing land with state?

Oh also mr hanky got permabanned for alt threats at 40 warns. Maybe he isn’t the best guy to pioneer your argument

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1 hour ago, williams245678 said:

-Moving the court house will help cause less distractions yes.

 

-Mr. Hankey may have gotten banned but in that video up there, even other GOV agents knew he was innocent and admitted they were "just following orders", like the nazis.

With all due respect, don’t refer to me as a nazi. Actually don’t make that comparison about anyone

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-Support

This is not needed at all

As I said last time, This a semi-serious policerp not a courtroom simulator

Didnt this already get denied??
 

It looks like this suggestion is trying to give more power to the judge.

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4 hours ago, not ben said:

-Support

This is not needed at all

As I said last time, This a semi-serious policerp not a courtroom simulator

Didnt this already get denied??
 

It looks like this suggestion is trying to give more power to the judge.

 

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On 10/23/2021 at 1:58 AM, GL Travis Sandman said:

The Courthouse is DOC Property and DOC is State Property meaning DOC Command and State High Command can not be told to leave the Courtroom

-Support 
For Reasons stated above 

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  • Former | UMC Paramilitary | LVL 4  
     
  • Signed, Ajax Reyes.
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