Disallow MTF/Foundation Members to camp Gates - Denied

[Kindred]

On 2/8/2021 at 8:27 AM, That Fireman Guy said:

It's not that CI can't take down 3 MTF, its that it's usually Explosive/ High Rate of DPS weapon using MTF, Imagine being immediately ripped apart by 3 CI Trap Experts at the same time while you can't fire at them due to them being around a corner. That's the sort of stuff I mean, also I sometimes highly doubt that there are just 3 MTF half the time, I've seen CI Raids instantly shut down in like 10 seconds.

I agree on the Gate B thing. 
Also I'm editing the suggestion, I changed my mind about Checkpoints.

It's called a choke point, it's a strategy, CI should utilize flash and smokes more often if that's the case. This is a maximum security facility with a dozen or two SCPs of Keter, Euclid, and Safe object classes. Site Administration and High Command offices are right by the gate as well, which gives even more of a reason why there should be "SOME" guards at the gate. I understand bias, but here's some possible solutions. 

 

 

Temporary Solution: CI should start utilizing Gate B, if there's only a max of 3 people allowed to guard the gates now then MTF isn't able to guard both efficiently. CI should utilize both gates or just Gate B. I understand that the risk of Gate B is a potential firefight with E-11 but it would introduce a high risk high reward scenario. If you have smokes and flashes I don't see why CI can't coordinate to make a successful push, explosives specialists 'KNOW' they can't just spam their EX-41 because they have a 3 second cooldown for every shot, you could have 1 person bait out the shots and or act as a sacrifice with a riot shield. Instead of doing that y'all are most likely bum rushing and b-hopping whilst spamming your shotties, similarly to how everyone else in this server PvPs except for the crouch spamming Class-D with csgo knives.

 

Possible Long Term Solution: Don't allow Explosives Specialists to guard the gates. If they were to be removed from the equation then a simpleminded bum rush strategy would work easily and you'd overpower the 3 guards easily.

 

-Support 

[Warren Talos]

 bruh they be camping like this meta game af 

we raided  and they were camping the hallways 

if yall want to camp then camp at the cp not in the hallway 

On 2/9/2021 at 1:49 PM, Henessy said:

Got an issue with MTF metagaming? Then report them instead of bitching about it on the forums. That's what I do when CI metagame me when I'm on pathfinder during supply raids.

 

yah btw that one was not metagaming it 343 who told them 

 

https://medal.tv/clips/43665187/d13377za6GCN

Edited February 10, 2021 by WARREN TALOS

[enuz 💣]

3 hours ago, Kindred said:

Temporary Solution: CI should start utilizing Gate B, if there's only a max of 3 people allowed to guard the gates now then MTF isn't able to guard both efficiently. CI should utilize both gates or just Gate B. I understand that the risk of Gate B is a potential firefight with E-11 but it would introduce a high risk high reward scenario. If you have smokes and flashes I don't see why CI can't coordinate to make a successful push, explosives specialists 'KNOW' they can't just spam their EX-41 because they have a 3 second cooldown for every shot, you could have 1 person bait out the shots and or act as a sacrifice with a riot shield. Instead of doing that y'all are most likely bum rushing and b-hopping whilst spamming your shotties, similarly to how everyone else in this server PvPs except for the crouch spamming Class-D with csgo knives.

 

Possible Long Term Solution: Don't allow Explosives Specialists to guard the gates. If they were to be removed from the equation then a simpleminded bum rush strategy would work easily and you'd overpower the 3 guards easily.

 

 

[[GL] Fizz-y Soda]

22 minutes ago, WARREN TALOS said:

 bruh they be camping like this meta game af 

we raided  and they were camping the hallways 

https://medal.tv/clips/43665187/d13377za6GCN

 

15 hours ago, Bread said:

Earlier, me and a couple of Nu7 were guarding Gate A (I made sure that they weren't just aiming at doors at all times, they were actually standing in realistic spots with their weapons on safety), and we spotted CI. Within 5 seconds, we were killed, but it was called out because of an automatic bind.  Realistically, the ones guarding most likely wouldn't have been able to call them out during that time.

Maybe this can get cleared up? There seems to be confusion with the term "guarding" and "camping". Also with "Gate". If they are to be guarding the gate, they should be stationed AT the gate. Not all the way down the hall with guns aimed. 

[Bread]

55 minutes ago, [GL] Fizz-y Soda said:

 

Maybe this can get cleared up? There seems to be confusion with the term "guarding" and "camping". Also with "Gate". If they are to be guarding the gate, they should be stationed AT the gate. Not all the way down the hall with guns aimed. 

If theyre sitting at a hallway at a door waiting, then YES! that is camping. That is the complete opposite of what I want. They should be stationed there with guns on safety, giving it a RP element. That was my intention from the start.

[Coltable]

7 minutes ago, Bread said:

If theyre sitting at a hallway at a door waiting, then YES! that is camping. That is the complete opposite of what I want. They should be stationed there with guns on safety, giving it a RP element. That was my intention from the start.

Would you be suggesting then that MTF stand outside gate a/b then, kinda like the royal guards at Buckingham palace (but with miniguns lmao) instead of standing in the hallway at gate a/b. I mean i can see this working better i guess at the same time though really works in mtf favor as they get the added on time of ci having to still crack the 4 gates open, meaning by the time CI is inside EZ they might only have 1min nlr left or less.

But i do agree this suits more of the Guarding RP sort of vibe your going for so. 

 

[Bread]

1 minute ago, Coltable said:

Would you be suggesting then that MTF stand outside gate a/b then, kinda like the royal guards at Buckingham palace (but with miniguns lmao) instead of standing in the hallway at gate a/b. I mean i can see this working better i guess at the same time though really works in mtf favor as they get the added on time of ci having to still crack the 4 gates open, meaning by the time CI is inside EZ they might only have 1min nlr left or less.

Parking Lot, inside. Not in view of the larger gate.

[Coltable]

 
I love that i predicted all this toxic behavior/fighting on the forums would happen when they announced mtf can guard gate a/b XD I mean MTF could always do that, its just nobody did it because everyone figured its a dick move lmao.

[Coltable]

On 2/8/2021 at 6:26 PM, Bread said:

It is completely reasonable for a small squad of Nu7 to guard gate A on rotated intervals when there are enough on to do so. It is also Nu7 and wardens job to guard checkpoints

If they only move to guard when CI advert, thats metagaming. Either they always have a guard squad, or never have a guard squad.

How would you be able to prevent this though ? like i don't think there's currently any way to know if they meta or not. you could add a system in place where MTF when beginning a Guard station they have to say in /mtf comms "4 Nu7 moving to guard gate A" so its logged for staff? IDK what you would do if someone didn't log it tho in mtf comms, because they could just lie and say i forgot :? nothing staff could do then.

[Kindred]

On 2/10/2021 at 4:07 PM, Coltable said:

How would you be able to prevent this though ? like i don't think there's currently any way to know if they meta or not. you could add a system in place where MTF when beginning a Guard station they have to say in /mtf comms "4 Nu7 moving to guard gate A" so its logged for staff? IDK what you would do if someone didn't log it tho in mtf comms, because they could just lie and say i forgot :? nothing staff could do then.

Nu-7 low-senior command are to always know the locations/posts of all Nu-7 operatives no matter the time of day. It's made very clear that meta gaming of any kind is prohibited at least when it comes to acting on it, realistically we see the adverts and we know you guys are about to raid and so they brace themselves. This is unavoidable and is simply human nature, however, acting on this information is what constitutes it as meta-gaming, and all Nu-7 operatives are well aware of the consequences with doing so. 

 

On average the highest activity of meta gaming comes from Enlisted, I may be wrong but this is just my own experience. Nu-7 Command and Senior NCOs(more so Command) know when someone is doing something that's breaching our terms in the SOP. Nu-7 is organized and coordinated, again, my experience. I can't really speak for how things currently are, but if someone were to head to a post let's say gate or checkpoint or even to get Class-D then they'd have to report it in either MTF, Nu-7 or Voice Comms, Nu-7 Command or NCOs(More so command) would then give them the "Okay" to do so.

 

I'm retired and haven't played on the server at all lately however I think this should answer your concerns. I'm sure that you guys could come to a compromise. 

 

 

In my opinion if the guards should be 'guarding' anywhere, it should be behind Gate A in order to protect the elevator and the internal main gate. If they were to guard outside well from a strategical point of view it's dimwitted, there's no cover of any sort, they'll get destroyed in a matter of seconds. Again, no Explosives Specialists and what CI would have to deal with are just 2-4 guards which is pretty lackluster for a 'maximum security facility'. 

[The Judge]

On 2/10/2021 at 12:57 PM, Coltable said:

I love that i predicted all this toxic behavior/fighting on the forums would happen when they announced mtf can guard gate a/b XD I mean MTF could always do that, its just nobody did it because everyone figured its a dick move lmao.

Before the map change we were Technically allowed to camp the cafeteria to make it fair for ci and we made it were only 3 nu7 were only allowed their even rang said only have 3 nu7 at least, but Mike then told us we had to stop it or we would get a strike

-/+support leaning for -support 

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Evil

[Rookieblue]

Forum Diplomat Note

Due to the arguing ongoing in this topic replies are now restricted to only providing +/- Support and the reasoning. Any posts that fail to comply with this restriction will be hidden and the poster will receive a warning.

[Surge]

-Support

If MTF units were called out in TS or ingame chat that CI are exfiling witha hostage or multiple class D , MTF should be allowed to defend the gate an prevent it 

makes zero sense MTF Know they are here they arnt just gonna allow safe passage out knowing terrorists are inside 

[Skela]

+/- Support.

Here’s my thing.

In a Roleplay standpoint, this completely make sense. We’re in a facility that has multiple SCP and top of the line personals. (As long we have 2-4 guards that is)

 

However if we look at this in a Server standpoint:

Chaos is currently getting stomped whenever they attempt to enter the facility. We have to keep in mind, they have to crack open doors, which by estimating, it’ll take 1-2 minutes from EZ-LCZ if the doors are all shut. Now if we add people who watches the gates into the mix, they can easily damage CI low enough so that anyone can just walk in a room full of chaos and easily spray them, ending a raid. This ruin’s CI element of surprise/possible ways for CI to get recruits and SCP for RND. 
 

Arguments that people said “Well CI shouldn’t be able to camp there gates”, is really invalid. 
That is pretty much their bunker, with no keypads or anything, there’s not really much of a struggle to raid CI’s base, since MTF don’t have to worry about cracking anything. 
 

I’m still 50/50 with all of this, since I enjoy the RP standpoint, but we also gotta keep in mind how would this effect the server. 

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Skela

[OWNED]

2 hours ago, Skela said:

+/- Support.

Here’s my thing.

In a Roleplay standpoint, this completely make sense. We’re in a facility that has multiple SCP and top of the line personals. (As long we have 2-4 guards that is)

 

However if we look at this in a Server standpoint:

Chaos is currently getting stomped whenever they attempt to enter the facility. We have to keep in mind, they have to crack open doors, which by estimating, it’ll take 1-2 minutes from EZ-LCZ if the doors are all shut. Now if we add people who watches the gates into the mix, they can easily damage CI low enough so that anyone can just walk in a room full of chaos and easily spray them, ending a raid. This ruin’s CI element of surprise/possible ways for CI to get recruits and SCP for RND. 
 

Arguments that people said “Well CI shouldn’t be able to camp there gates”, is really invalid. 
That is pretty much their bunker, with no keypads or anything, there’s not really much of a struggle to raid CI’s base, since MTF don’t have to worry about cracking anything. 
 

I’m still 50/50 with all of this, since I enjoy the RP standpoint, but we also gotta keep in mind how would this effect the server. 

 

I think a big issue here is the fact that people always take the "in RP" into account way too often.

you have to realize that, from a player standpoint, this effectively makes raiding on CI and nightmare and just unfun as a whole.

but, if they werent allowed to camp/defend gates then It would make CI raids more frustrating for the foundation members as well.

+/- Support, rather remain neutral on this until a compromise can be made that makes both sides happy

[Jack (utility one)]

-support
idk what yall have been lookin at but everytime I'm on the server and CI raid, CI have gotten to LCZ with a decent sizeable force. But to the actual point you can't use RP for this as like propane said some things in RP can't be put into the game as it would be utterly unfair, how if CI raided the foundation would use everything instantly, like a micro, and would clap cheeks. But that's obviously unfair by a mile so we can't do that. But since we are a semi-serious RP server we do try to make things work, having guards at the gate make sense but can be unfair. Just limit the amount, I saw this suggested so ima just say that. It doesn't matter the class if you have more people then lets say 3 people you have the advantage hands down, even against explosive classes. Especially explosive classes since they have no ammo counts and low DPS besides the actual explosive, just bait them lol, not hard to do. Or have someone sacrifice themselves to bait and while they reload rush them. Or just yeet grenades to into the foundation. If E11 come then they should be in the open or coming behind the Nu7 making an easy choke hold where you just spray and prey, if they flank then sniper classes get easy meals off em. 

TLDR: Many ways to avoid this problem, like someone said before, this seems just like an escape goat to take the easy path.

[Skela]

35 minutes ago, OWNED said:

3 hours ago, Skela said:

I think a big issue here is the fact that people always take the "in RP" into account way too often.

you have to realize that, from a player standpoint, this effectively makes raiding on CI and nightmare and just unfun as a whole.

but, if they werent allowed to camp/defend gates then It would make CI raids more frustrating for the foundation members as well.

 

I Agree on this 100%. 
This is a Semi-Serious server, so certain RP aspects wouldn’t work in day to day rp. This is due to the player’s standpoint if it’s fair or not.

 

[Cloaker]

+Support

It wouldn't be fun if CI camped MTF bunks, why would this be any different for Gates?

I understand the RP aspect of this but this takes away greatly from CI, so just throw

this out the window this is causing to much back and forth to keep in place and if not

at least nerf it so it isn't considered metagaming.

 

[Rabbit]

-support to much fun messing with the metagamers in MTF with false flag up adverts :).

Also rumor is E-11 base is getting moved away from Gate B so we're have that entry point as well.

[Igneous]

This is going to be denied FOR NOW. 

There are some upcoming changes that should hopefully help with this isuse.

[Igneous]

Denied. The SCP-RP SMT has decided against adding this suggestion for performance reasons, the benefit to the server, or another unstated reason.