Changing the new Non-combatant rule - Accepted

[October]

What you want to see? - A tweak and/or removal of the new rule on CI and non-combatants. 

Why should we add it? - I understand that there is a struggle to find balance. No one wants these “RP branches” to die out because CI constantly threaten them, but the new rule is far too restrictive on CI, and they see no advantage to it. At the moment, no one in CI (excluding sleuths and Maynard) can kill or shoot utility and we have to let them do “their RP.” In return they can’t call us out, but 9/10 times that we see utility we’ve already been called out.

Furthermore, it doesn’t make sense (RP wise) to have a janitor going around on defcon 2 cleaning things. 

I understand that you guys are trying to “make it fair for everyone,” but this rule only hurts CI. From what I’ve heard, there was no consultation with CI command before this rule was implemented. (Yes Aleks is talking with them, but that’s after the rule was implemented). 

What would I like to see: a reversion to the old rule, CI won’t kill you as long as you comply and don’t do stupid things ie “holding a weapon, running away, etc.” I understand that this is a semi-serious RP server, but you have to remember that CI is a group of terrorists and war criminals who believe in killing as many as it takes (including their own) to create the perfect world/society. 

Let’s talk about E4, they are the most redacted unit there is. If you’re below the rank of COL and you even utter their call sign you risk termination. Why would they not be allowed to kill non-combatants. 

Finally, this rule is unfair because it doesn’t work both ways. Our CI non-combatant classes aren’t protected by this rule. When we try to do research you guys interfere. Imagine this, if there was a rule that stated “MTF cannot kill R&D” I bet people would find it outrageous. 

What are the advantages of having this? - Just making it more fair.

Who is it mainly for? - CI

Links to any content - N/A

I apologize for the rant, I’m just voicing the opinion of many members of CI. I’m prepared for the flood of downvotes I’m probably about to get lol. 

Please just try to stay civil in comments

[Propane]

+support

Gotta make sure the RP branches can't RP there being a CI raid. What's a panic room/bunks?

[BadTimeInbound]

21 minutes ago, October said:

Furthermore, it doesn’t make sense (RP wise) to have a janitor going around on defcon 2 cleaning things. 

 

It's written into the SOPs of most departments to go into the bunks on a Defcon 2 regardless of whether CI is present.

I was pretty happy before the rule change, where we can't harm them if they can't harm us. I can see why people would think this is a little excessive.

[Consario]

+ Support

 While I see the use for this rule, i think it actually has to take into account how CI operates. They take hostages to get information and sell them back/kill them. Before we'd take utility and such as hostages but now we have to try and get MTF, who'll just run back and shoot us before we can type anything or get FearRP on. I think CI shouldn't be allowed to kill Utility and such that isn't hindering them, but CI hate the foundation and everything it stands for. Utility and Research are apart of the Foundation. Now for RP we can say that CI knows that they're just doing their job and therefore aren't kill unless there's a threat. But at the end of the day I just think the rule needs to be revised. It seems more towards protecting Foundation and hindering CI as it stands

[Bionicle]

+support, can we just fucking remove this dumb rule entirely? 

[October]

14 minutes ago, BadTimeInbound said:

It's written into the SOPs of most departments to go into the bunks on a Defcon 2 regardless of whether CI is present

To quote Inaccurate BEFORE this new rule was added “That SOP rule was more of a suggestion than a rule.” Also, I have never seen that rule enforced. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by October

[BadAim]

I still am yet to comprehend what is so hard about going to a panic room when there is a GOI that hates the foundation in the facility.

+Support

[Rangiatea]

9 minutes ago, October said:

To quote Inaccurate BEFORE this new rule was added “That SOP rule was more of a suggestion than a rule.”

you wot? imma have a nice long talk with him.

 

[Bionicle]

7 minutes ago, Rangiatea said:

you wot? imma have a nice long talk with him.

 

lmaaaaaaaaaaaao

[Cogs]

On 6/13/2020 at 6:30 PM, BadAim said:

I still am yet to comprehend what is so hard about going to a panic room when there is a GOI that hates the foundation in the facility.

+Support

Even as utility command, i know this new rule is just kinda silly, just go in bunks or a panic room and write logs or something

Edited June 18, 2020 by fazfan1987

[Dang]

1 hour ago, BadAim said:

I still am yet to comprehend what is so hard about going to a panic room when there is a GOI that hates the foundation in the facility.

+Support

 

[Jakub]

1 hour ago, BadAim said:

I still am yet to comprehend what is so hard about going to a panic room when there is a GOI that hates the foundation in the facility.

+Support

 

[Skela]

2 hours ago, Consario said:

+ Support

 While I see the use for this rule, i think it actually has to take into account how CI operates. They take hostages to get information and sell them back/kill them. Before we'd take utility and such as hostages but now we have to try and get MTF, who'll just run back and shoot us before we can type anything or get FearRP on. I think CI shouldn't be allowed to kill Utility and such that isn't hindering them, but CI hate the foundation and everything it stands for. Utility and Research are apart of the Foundation. Now for RP we can say that CI knows that they're just doing their job and therefore aren't kill unless there's a threat. But at the end of the day I just think the rule needs to be revised. It seems more towards protecting Foundation and hindering CI as it stands

Thinking about it now. Bringing a big ass point. CI had now lost one of it's way to roleplay. Since now Utility staff are "Immune" to  such things... We can't do kidnapping and interrogations. Non Combantants  was one the goals if we're trying to interrogate. Now it's MTF, which tend to have weapons out at all times. Almost unable to interrogate anyone. CI RP too, Raiding, Standing our grounds, Propaganda, releasing info to public, captures, scp, ETC ETc...

[Comrade Boekhom]

3 hours ago, Propane said:

+support

Gotta make sure the RP branches can't RP there being a CI raid. What's a panic room/bunks?

 

[Mint]

BIG +Support this change is very stupid. Like they complain because they have to wait nlr. This needs to be changed because in a real situation UTILITY HAVE COMMS SO THE YCAN CALL OUT CI. This makes it SO MUCH DAMN HARDER FOR MTF TO KNOW HWERE CI IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLUS in lore ci would gun down anybody they see. i dont like how utility complain about dying like who cares tbh.

[enuz 💣]

+Support

This is completely one sided and is bringing g down CI as a result of the foundations activity. 

 

There has to be some middle ground. Sure, making sure non-combatants can’t shoot CI can be your compromise, but that has always been a rule. As being Head of Janitorial Staff once before, there is a rule where you can only use your gun in self defense. You are not to shoot CI unless they have shot you once before.

This rule completely ruins RP for CI and CI shouldn’t be brought down due to someone else’s fault 

Edited June 14, 2020 by enuz | trade.tf

[pixalgamer99]

I am R Tako on a dif acc real quick to say that if they want to rp they can go to the bunks or get kidnapped or shot that’s kinda how CI operates if their is a R on RND and he wants an scp but then CI raids and with this new rule if a test was being run CI military unit could not either kill or take the researcher hostage take the D class or take the scp itself so I think when they made the rule they did not even say a word to CI and only favored utility and research this rule does not make it fair and even talking to a member of CI for about a couple minutes doesn’t hurt and it if they actually had CI benefiting  in any way from this all the flaws and also RND we get shot when MTF raids but oh no we can’t shoot researchers that is clearly not having any thoughts about CI and again if this rule stays the way it is or even just stays in general it will hurt CI and our activity, will take away valuable parts about being in CI and only benifit the other branch’s for not taking a terrorist raid seriously and saying fuck it I’ll do my test when we have 20 armed gunman who want to kill me still here and if other branch’s are dying doesn’t matter fix something about the branch tell them it’s def con 2 CI is raid 682 and 076-02 have breached I know you want to but stop testing 999 it’s not our fault those branch’s can’t find a safe spot so I’m +support just get rid of this stupid rule that hurts CI and only benefits utility and research 

[[GL] Inaccurate]

I would like to see how the rule ends up working out before making any changes. But if proves to be un-beneficial to CI and only causes issues I'm all for changing.

[Silver3504]

3 hours ago, Skela said:

Thinking about it now. Bringing a big ass point. CI had now lost one of it's way to roleplay. Since now Utility staff are "Immune" to  such things... We can't do kidnapping and interrogations. Non Combantants  was one the goals if we're trying to interrogate. Now it's MTF, which tend to have weapons out at all times. Almost unable to interrogate anyone. CI RP too, Raiding, Standing our grounds, Propaganda, releasing info to public, captures, scp, ETC ETc...

 

[Ritz]

also CI get the bad deal here so yeah

just make panic rooms a no no zone for CI

[Crabbo]

+Support
GET IT OUTTA HERE

[Gunther]

7 hours ago, October said:

Let’s talk about E4, they are the most redacted unit there is. If you’re below the rank of COL and you even utter their call sign you risk termination. Why would they not be allowed to kill non-combatants. 

I know this has nothing to do with this but how do you refer to them if even saying their call sign is grounds for termination?

 

7 hours ago, October said:

a reversion to the old rule, CI won’t kill you as long as you comply and don’t do stupid things ie “holding a weapon, running away, etc.” I understand that this is a semi-serious RP server, but you have to remember that CI is a group of terrorists and war criminals who believe in killing as many as it takes (including their own) to create the perfect world/society. 

That is the perfect argument right there, and I can't see any way of someone countering it. +Support.

[Bionicle]

3 minutes ago, Gunther said:

I know this has nothing to do with this but how do you refer to them if even saying their call sign is grounds for termination?

CI refer to them as "The E4" or something like Sir or shit like that

[MiniLeopard]

+/-Support

There must be a better way but let's wait a little longer before we change stuff again

[Phillers]

Alright, let me preface this that i agree that the current ruleset is far from ideal, and should be changed to better benefit both CI and Utility/Research,  however there are some issue's here.

 

12 hours ago, October said:

What would I like to see: a reversion to the old rule, CI won’t kill you as long as you comply and don’t do stupid things ie “holding a weapon, running away, etc.” I understand that this is a semi-serious RP server, but you have to remember that CI is a group of terrorists and war criminals who believe in killing as many as it takes (including their own) to create the perfect world/society. 

This doesn't really work, the issue here is that it leaves it at purely CI's discretion wether to shoot someone, or kidnap them. Now, kidnapping for higher ranked personell might bring some entertainment to both parties, but for Juniors it often just means them being locked up in a room with comms stripped untill they get found, often quite some time later. I will however say that from what it looks like for now, this seems to be an option prefferable to the current one, but still far from perfect.

12 hours ago, October said:

Furthermore, it doesn’t make sense (RP wise) to have a janitor going around on defcon 2 cleaning things. 

If any Enlisted UTIL staff is out on a Defcon 2, please get some evidence and report them to their CMD, as they are not meant to be doing that. (Exclusions are for Medical, who should be in a locked down Medbay, and Tech's/Jan's taking care of self-breaching)
 

9 hours ago, Skela said:

Thinking about it now. Bringing a big ass point. CI had now lost one of it's way to roleplay. Since now Utility staff are "Immune" to  such things... We can't do kidnapping and interrogations. Non Combantants  was one the goals if we're trying to interrogate. Now it's MTF, which tend to have weapons out at all times. Almost unable to interrogate anyone. CI RP too, Raiding, Standing our grounds, Propaganda, releasing info to public, captures, scp, ETC ETc...

I agree with this, CI needs a method of RP. Perhaps we could make the rule that CI is free to capture/interrogate people above a certain rank, say CMD or HCMD Members? This way CI gets their RP, and  the lower ranked non-combatants don't have to worry about being locked up in a room.
 

11 hours ago, BadAim said:

I still am yet to comprehend what is so hard about going to a panic room when there is a GOI that hates the foundation in the facility.

+Support

The thing here is, CI raids can take a long time, and can be done every 20 minutes. Now lets assume the average CI raid will take about 10 minutes, which i think is a bit of an underestimation, and that MTF will call the all-clear the second that the last CI is actually killed (Which rarely happens due to MTF Sweeping), that would still leave us with a minimum of 20 minutes each hour that CI would be in the site, and Util/Research would be expected to be hiding in a Panic Room.

This leaves us with someone having to (On average) spend 1/3 of their time on the server sitting in a panic room doing nothing, so this is simply not an option with the current CI raid timer.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Falxen