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The issue with ACM - Denied


October

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+Support.

So this is my own personal opinion, but realistically Medical should not have a Combat class. Their job is to fix wounds, not create them. (Ironic ain't it) I don't believe every branch should have this super powered Combat class. There's a reason Gensec/RCF/MTF/CI are Security/Military branches, because that's their job. They are meant to protect and escort Utility and Research Personnel. I'm not against Util and Research carrying a handgun in times of self-defense, but full out having Assault Rifles and having more HP and AR that some Security classes (I say some because I don't know their exact HP/AR) just doesn't make sense, and it takes away from Gensec and MTF's jobs of protecting Medbay and various other places, since they are General Security, not D-Block Security. However, since we are a semi-serious RP server and half the shit and logic in our server makes no sense, at the very least the ACM should become the ASDM.
 

Edited by Gunther

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1 hour ago, Gunther said:

+Support.

So this is my own personal opinion, but realistically Medical should not have a Combat class. Their job is to fix wounds, not create them. (Ironic ain't it) I don't believe every branch should have this super powered Combat class. There's a reason Gensec/RCF/MTF/CI are Security/Military branches, because that's their job. They are meant to protect and escort Utility and Research Personnel. I'm not against Util and Research carrying a handgun in times of self-defense, but full out having Assault Rifles and having more HP and AR that some Security classes (I say some because I don't know their exact HP/AR) just doesn't make sense, and it takes away from Gensec and MTF's jobs of protecting Medbay and various other places, since they are General Security, not D-Block Security. However, since we are a semi-serious RP server and half the shit and logic in our server makes no sense, at the very least the ACM should become the ASDM.

I haven't seen Gensec covering medbay in a long time.....and with gensec constantly harassing utility (especially medical) are you guys truly defending us? With gensec sometimes REFUSING to go to medbay are you truly defending us?

Incinerating yourselves and going to other extremes  to avoid coming to medbay i think we need a combat class to actually defend ourselves because sometimes gensec wont.

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1 hour ago, Poke aka Blarg said:

I haven't seen Gensec covering medbay in a long time.....and with gensec constantly harassing utility (especially medical) are you guys truly defending us? With gensec sometimes REFUSING to go to medbay are you truly defending us?

Incinerating yourselves and going to other extremes  to avoid coming to medbay i think we need a combat class to actually defend ourselves because sometimes gensec wont.

First off, don't assume. Not all Gensec do that. I don't really know what you mean by harassing, but not all Gensec do that so don't act like we do. Second, the point was that its our job to fight CI and D-Class, as well as MTF's, and yes, even guard Medbay. That's not your job, your branch isn't Military, its Medical. Also, you can't really complain we don't send anyone out when you're already doing our job for us. Third, this is extremely biased and feeling some hate coming off you. And lastly, what does Gensec not coming to Medbay to be healed have anything to do with the protection of Medbay? The methods you say we do are exaggerated completely, there's only been one instance someone did that, and it was because they were damaged out of RP; while they were in bunks. Besides, that's just adding unnecessary information that doesn't pertain to the situation. 

Edited by Gunther

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2 minutes ago, Gunther said:

First off, don't assume. Not all Gensec do that. I don't really know what you mean by harassing, but not all Gensec do that so don't act like we do. Second, the point was that its our job to fight CI and D-Class, as well as MTF's, and yes, even guard Medbay. That's not your job, your branch isn't Military, its Medical. Also, you can't really complain we don't send anyone out when you're already doing our job for us. Third, this is extremely biased and feeling some hate coming off you. And lastly, what does Gensec not coming to Medbay to be healed have anything to do with the protection of Medbay? The methods you say we do are exaggerated completely, there's only been one instance someone did that, and it was because they were damaged out of RP; while they were in bunks. Besides, that's just adding unnecessary information that doesn't pertain to the situation. 

If you got reports of members of your branch getting harass by another branch you would be not very happy as well. And ACMs aren't meant to guard medbay but since gensec are not doing it we HAVE to do it

SCPRP Former Head Of Medical Staff | "I was hom" | PhD in botching surgeries
ImperialRP Former 69th Medical Corps Senior Commander and Former Commander "What do you mean the patient needs to have a spine to survive?"-Some researcher (probably)  Former ImperialRP Senior Admin
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1 minute ago, Poke aka Blarg said:

If you got reports of members of your branch getting harass by another branch you would be not very happy as well. And ACMs aren't meant to guard medbay but since gensec are not doing it we HAVE to do it

Then I suggest talking to our High Command if you feel they are lacking in the Guard Department. 

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Let's not argue guys! It gets us no where and will end up just locking this post.

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6 hours ago, [GL] Inaccurate said:

I was told by Site Admin/SMT otherwise chief.

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-Support med-bay need something to do/defend themselves.

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+/- Support, i understand were you are comming from and how it can be an issue, but it does give Medical some much needed activity. If you can get them something else special to be doing i'd be all for it, but you are currently just suggesting making them a FM with a better gun.

 

-Support, with the recent rule change in CI in regards to shooting Utility, Its better that UTIL branches have as much defence as they can muster, certainly medbay as CI nearly always passes through there.

Edited by Falxen

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-support "Advanced Combat Medic" its a combat role they only attacked when provoked , an ACM'S protect their medical staff

Ret MTF Nu7 1LT SFTO Surge| Ret OH2 RRH , Retired SM Gensec |  No officer that 24Pounds of plutonium isn't mine

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+/- Support
I believe that the ACM should still be able to fight CI and protect medbay, As to my knowledge Ci can still kill utility if they havent been called out yet
i think you guys should meet halfway ACM can kill CI if they havent been called out yet, But if CI have been called out they cannot attack them

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2 hours ago, pixelated pancakes said:

+/- Support
I believe that the ACM should still be able to fight CI and protect medbay, As to my knowledge Ci can still kill utility if they havent been called out yet
i think you guys should meet halfway ACM can kill CI if they havent been called out yet, But if CI have been called out they cannot attack them

I dont think that'd be a good idea, because then you make it in the ACM's best interest to not callout CI, and that would be  a conflict of interests.

"Without morals, are we truly any better than the things we've set ourselves to contain?"

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On 5/14/2020 at 11:10 PM, MiniLeopard said:

-Support med-bay need something to do/defend themselves.

Their whole job is to assist MTF to help keep things in LCZ safe as MTF can get very busy in HCZ/EZ so killing Class-D/CI or Helping with SCP's is one of their main things. What is trying to get done is make it so all of utility is the same which makes it extremely boring making it to where no one wants to play on it. Whats the point of making the job a COMBAT Medic (Hints why its name a combat medic) if it cant help in combat? All I see is another suggestion that hurts utility in a way at making all jobs the same but with different objectives. Medic = Heal, Tech = Fix, Janitorial = Clean. Its like giving medical just a better field medic but you get a cooler gun it makes zero sense so I dont want this to happen -Support They wouldn't have made it a combat medic if they didn't want it to have combat capabilities.

 

Edit: Why would they have just given ACM a BETTER gun if they didnt want it to have combat abilities it makes no sense on why they would just remove that ability out of no where

Edited by ReZVoRtEx24
Added the Edit

 

 

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this is a wannabee mtf right?

to me it looks like you wanna do mtfs job whilst on the medic class if you play acm.

+support

Edited by Jakub

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On 5/15/2020 at 2:10 AM, MiniLeopard said:

-Support med-bay need something to do/defend themselves.

ACM attacking at free will isn't self defense.

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On 5/16/2020 at 9:30 AM, ReZVoRtEx24 said:

Their whole job is to assist MTF to help keep things in LCZ safe as MTF can get very busy in HCZ/EZ so killing Class-D/CI or Helping with SCP's is one of their main things. What is trying to get done is make it so all of utility is the same which makes it extremely boring making it to where no one wants to play on it. Whats the point of making the job a COMBAT Medic (Hints why its name a combat medic) if it cant help in combat? All I see is another suggestion that hurts utility in a way at making all jobs the same but with different objectives. Medic = Heal, Tech = Fix, Janitorial = Clean. Its like giving medical just a better field medic but you get a cooler gun it makes zero sense so I dont want this to happen -Support They wouldn't have made it a combat medic if they didn't want it to have combat capabilities.

 

Edit: Why would they have just given ACM a BETTER gun if they didnt want it to have combat abilities it makes no sense on why they would just remove that ability out of no where

if your talking about the benelli replacing the MP9 then your extremely wrong. The MP9 was good at medium and sometimes long rang. Its rate of fire (better than the F2000) and its recoil (SO MUCH FUCKIN BETTER THEN THE F2000) are extremely good and it only does 1 less damage then the F2000. Now the F2000 is really really good....if your literally inside the person your trying to kill. If you have ever used the F2000 then you would know the recoil is so bad it's basically impossible to use, your better off using the five-seven at anything further than the tip of your barrel. Now the benelli is not to good. It 2 shots regular D-class with  a slight chance of 1 hitting them. I think more people wouldn't hate if they actually tried the class out or the weapons themselves. I really do wish people tried it themselves to fully understand that it isn't OP just in some circumstances it is, like when CI or D-class are in a tight hallway or something then the F2000 is somewhat able to hit people.

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-support

Basically your attempting to make it a Glorified Field Medic as its not that far fetched to have a Combat medic division in a medical profession (Taking an IRL example here) there are Combat Medic divisions in Real armies and medics and doing so with Medical gives them some protection against D class and CI

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4 hours ago, [GL] Dtscalice said:

-support

Basically your attempting to make it a Glorified Field Medic as its not that far fetched to have a Combat medic division in a medical profession (Taking an IRL example here) there are Combat Medic divisions in Real armies and medics and doing so with Medical gives them some protection against D class and CI

I’m not arguing against a position like a combat medic existing, each branch (CI included) already has one. What I’m saying is (let’s use your example of combat medics) you don’t become a combat medic by joining a hospital. You become a combat medic by first joining the military (in this scenario MTF) and then getting further training. 

It’s not unreasonable to believe that they might have some self-defense training due to the nature of where they work (Site-05 is dangerous), but l don’t believe it makes sense for medical to have their own watered down MTF unit. 

I will admit I am attempting to make them a glorified field medic, but this is because I don’t believe it makes sense for them to exist. CI is no longer allowed to kill medical/utility/whatever non-combatant you want to name, and GENSEC exists to protect medical from d-class, so essentially ACM is a watered down combination of GENSEC and Nu7 that doesn’t make sense to me. 

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59 minutes ago, October said:

I’m not arguing against a position like a combat medic existing, each branch (CI included) already has one. What I’m saying is (let’s use your example of combat medics) you don’t become a combat medic by joining a hospital. You become a combat medic by first joining the military (in this scenario MTF) and then getting further training. 

It’s not unreasonable to believe that they might have some self-defense training due to the nature of where they work (Site-05 is dangerous), but l don’t believe it makes sense for medical to have their own watered down MTF unit. 

I will admit I am attempting to make them a glorified field medic, but this is because I don’t believe it makes sense for them to exist. CI is no longer allowed to kill medical/utility/whatever non-combatant you want to name, and GENSEC exists to protect medical from d-class, so essentially ACM is a watered down combination of GENSEC and Nu7 that doesn’t make sense to me. 

I realized I put this in the wrong ACM suggestion. Also, yea October said it best.
 

This is taken from a website explaining the combat medic, also Field and Combat Medic are the same job, just different name. Like Cougar and Mountain Lion. Second,

Quote

Army combat medics aren't just trained to save lives in a combat zone; they're also trained soldiers. In addition to emergency medical training, combat medics go through the same basic combat training as all other soldiers, and they have the basic combat skills to protect themselves if under enemy fire.

Quote

Combat medics also receive the same basic weapons training as every other soldier. Does this mean they carry weapons? Yes, they do. While medics historically didn't carry weapons, today's combat medics are not only trained to fight, but are allowed to defend themselves if they come under attack, usually at short range and usually in response to a surprise attack while attending to or evacuating a wounded patient.

Quote

Why the change? Although the Geneva Conventions protect medical personnel, not all enemies respect the doctrine, and both doctors and medics have found themselves targets on the battlefield.  And since they have often become targets, all medical personnel carry a pistol or service rifle (M-16) at all times, to be used for self-defense only.

So since we have an Advanced it makes sense to have a better gun, but their job is still the same. It says they are allowed to defend themselves, not engage combat without being under attack first, because in a real life scenario, saving a man's life is more important, and if the medic dies, everyone dies. I know we are semi-serious, but at least attempt to roleplay what shit would really be like.

Also since a lot of our jobs are derived from their Real Life incarnations, it only makes sense for ACM to follow their Real Life incarnations as well.

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4 hours ago, Gunther said:

I realized I put this in the wrong ACM suggestion. Also, yea October said it best.
 

This is taken from a website explaining the combat medic, also Field and Combat Medic are the same job, just different name. Like Cougar and Mountain Lion. Second,

So since we have an Advanced it makes sense to have a better gun, but their job is still the same. It says they are allowed to defend themselves, not engage combat without being under attack first, because in a real life scenario, saving a man's life is more important, and if the medic dies, everyone dies. I know we are semi-serious, but at least attempt to roleplay what shit would really be like.

Also since a lot of our jobs are derived from their Real Life incarnations, it only makes sense for ACM to follow their Real Life incarnations as well.

We don't follow the Geneva Convention, nor are we a national military. We are a top-secret "company" who receives government funding to contain anomalies. We are not a offical military, we are not expected to follow the Geneva Convention

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33 minutes ago, [GL] Inaccurate said:

We don't follow the Geneva Convention, nor are we a national military. We are a top-secret "company" who receives government funding to contain anomalies. We are not a offical military, we are not expected to follow the Geneva Convention

Read the parts about what a Combat Medic and what its job is. I know we don't follow the Geneva Convention but we do base our branches off real life incarnations of their individual jobs, Combat Medic included. That part is solely for context later in the quote, cause if I take half that out, then you won't know why I used that as a point. Its to explain why Combat Medics have guns to begin with. 

Edit: Technically we do follow Geneva Convention, well rather CI does, because in the past, CI wouldn't just kill non-combatants but there was nothing stopping them from doing so, now they generally are not allowed to kill non-combatants, unless they are Shades. 

Edited by Gunther

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3 minutes ago, Gunther said:

Read the parts about what a Combat Medic and what its job is. I know we don't follow the Geneva Convention but we do base our branches off real life incarnations of their individual jobs, Combat Medic included. That part is solely for context later in the quote, cause if I take half that out, then you won't know why I used that as a point. Its to explain why Combat Medics have guns to begin with. 

Yes, but that's describing a national military, guess what, the Foundation is not a national military, at best it's a private Military.

If you want to discuss this more, please do it over PMs, I don't want to clutter this thread up.

Edited by [GL] Inaccurate

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3rd time Head of Medical Staff Ex-Director of Research and Security Ex-Director of Utility | Ex-Senior Admin for SCP-RP |  Ex-Admin for TTT 

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9 minutes ago, [GL] Inaccurate said:

Yes, but that's describing a national military, guess what, the Foundation is not a national military, at best it's a private Military.

Ok, noted. However, there's no reason to assume that the Foundation wouldn't follow some form of the Geneva Convention, sure its not a National Military, but its a Military no less. That point aside, which really has no point in this discussion, its merely context for another point, Combat Medics in a private military would no doubt follow the same rules or guidelines as a national military, only engaging the enemy in defense, not through free will. It really doesn't make sense for an ACM to engage hostiles when their primary job is Medical, because if they die on the field, who is going to heal the rest of the team?

Also, before anyone jumps the gun, we are debating this, not arguing. We're keeping this respectful and not shitting on the other's opinion.

Edited by Gunther

Former Security Captain | Former RCF Commander | Former Admin of SCP:RP | King Penguin 
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On 5/16/2020 at 12:56 AM, Kommunistic said:

-support "Advanced Combat Medic" its a combat role they only attacked when provoked , an ACM'S protect their medical staff

They don’t protect medical staff and they don’t only attack when provoked. My suggestion is to make it so they only attack when provoked. 

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