Nerf the knife - Accepted

[Rabbit]

1 hour ago, Gunther said:

People, its not that simple. D-Class overpower us through numbers, no NLR, and these knives. These are OP, they can decimate a 200/200 CC in less than a couple seconds. You guys keep saying move back, bruh obviously we don't stand in one place, we obviously do move, but eventually there's no more room and they double or triple team you and kill you. Its hard to focus your attention on multiple targets, it would be the equivalent of 3 CI ganging an MTF. It really ticks me off when people who are not Gensec say these are not OP and are perfectly balanced. You don't deal with these D-Class like we do. Obviously if this were just like any other melee weapon we wouldn't have a problem but these knives have a broken range, a very fast hit rate, and does 60 damage per hit. And all the people here -Supporting are D-Class or MTF who can tank most of the damage. MTF have much higher HP/AR than our Enlisted, so when D-Class manage to wipe our lower ranks and its just NCO's and Command vs the 12 armed D-Class, its obviously much harder to kill them.

I've been playing D-class doing the stabby stab and I can say Gensec have gotten  a lot better at dealing with a knife. Their spacing themselves out and focusing on the two holes in the fence.

You got to keep in mind people are paying money to have the knife, of course it's going to be a bit powerful 

[CanOBeanz]

+Support

I'd be happy with just the backstab damage getting removed

[[GL] Zeus]

12 hours ago, Zone said:

-Support

It's a melee weapon, just keep your distance

 

6 hours ago, Kratos™ said:

- Support

Don't get back stabbed.

 

If you know how to use the knife properly it’s good if not it’s really bad. Just don’t get close or don’t get back stabbed
We shouldn’t be nerfing weapons that people have to buy cause some people don’t know how to watch their backs and space out.

Just crouch jump and shoot it’s not that hard

-SUPPORT

 

12 hours ago, BlueToxicTank said:

-SUPPORT

- The knives are well balanced and require skill to do full damage, and it is easy to prevent knives if you make sure you don't get stabbed in the back and you hit your shots.

- The knives also brings something fun to the server and a new meta, the only reason CI use them is because they are FUN. 

- The only reason there are large riots is because the knives are new meaning more people are going on D-class recently. 

 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by [GL] Zeus

[Comrade Boekhom]

13 hours ago, BlueToxicTank said:

-SUPPORT

- The knives are well balanced and require skill to do full damage, and it is easy to prevent knives if you make sure you don't get stabbed in the back and you hit your shots.

- The knives also brings something fun to the server and a new meta, the only reason CI use them is because they are FUN. 

- The only reason there are large riots is because the knives are new meaning more people are going on D-class recently. 

 

 

 

[R̦̺̐ͫő̼̺͊c̘k̄]

-support

Just learn to move backwards instead of standing still whilst they shank you

[Neo]

If security didn't stand still going against knives it wouldn't be so "broken"
Here's an example.
 

https://medal.tv/clips/23120609/TKJxUofjEiSw

Edited April 27, 2020 by Neo

[Gunther]

2 hours ago, Neo said:

If security didn't stand still going against knives it wouldn't be so "broken"
Here's an example.
 

https://medal.tv/clips/23120609/TKJxUofjEiSw

Is that really how I sound? Awkward. Also you clearly see me moving, but I can't get a shot off because you're too close.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Gunther

[MattOminigo3]

19 hours ago, Ritz said:

lmao

also, why do i get a sense that this post is just someone complaining that they can't supplement a lower amount of skill in combat with a large health and armor pool
but putting that aside people forget that it's a melee weapon and that melee weapons should be dangerous at melee range

But meta changing weapon bad so I'm going to put a nerf suggestion due to my inability to adapt

-Support

 

[BadAim]

2 hours ago, Neo said:

If security didn't stand still going against knives it wouldn't be so "broken"
Here's an example.
 

https://medal.tv/clips/23120609/TKJxUofjEiSw

 

[Ritz]

16 hours ago, [GL] Zeus said:

If you know how to use the knife properly it’s good if not it’s really bad. Just don’t get close or don’t get back stabbed
We shouldn’t be nerfing weapons that people have to buy cause some people don’t know how to watch their backs and space out.

Just crouch jump and shoot it’s not that hard

-SUPPORT

 

[Jack II]

On 4/26/2020 at 8:26 PM, Ritz said:

lmao

also, why do i get a sense that this post is just someone complaining that they can't supplement a lower amount of skill in combat with a large health and armor pool
but putting that aside people forget that it's a melee weapon and that melee weapons should be dangerous at melee range

But meta changing weapon bad so I'm going to put a nerf suggestion due to my inability to adapt

-Support

Ive already adapted I use the knife all the time, it just doesnt seem fair. I mean I killed 3 cold silvers already and tons of gensec. I don't know why you are going on a rant for no reason. I feel like you don't really have any other way to fight in battle considering you think this weapon is fair but I understand that not everyones good at pvp.

[Propane]

23 hours ago, CanOBeanz said:

+Support

I'd be happy with just the backstab damage getting removed

Disregard my last comment, if you get cornered by 3 d class knifing you then it just becomes too much

[Comrade Boekhom]

17 hours ago, Gunther said:

Is that really how I sound? Awkward. Also you clearly see me moving, but I can't get a shot off because you're too close.

bRUH, you used a falcon in that close range against like, 2 d-bois it was gonna happen, also i enjoyed the yelling

19 hours ago, Neo said:

If security didn't stand still going against knives it wouldn't be so "broken"
Here's an example.
 

https://medal.tv/clips/23120609/TKJxUofjEiSw

 

[Cryolast]

+Support

While someone with a knife may be beaten in a 1v1 v.s. security, when we are having 5-10 d class with this weapon at times during these riots it is utterly awful. as for terms of a nerf, I don't care much about the damage or fire rate, but more the range. No knife should have a range of like 8 feet and stab me across the room.  How are we supposed to "back up and use barricades" like y'all said when the D class doesn't even have to get close.

Note: I know this isn't for every knife but only a few when it comes to the range

Edited April 28, 2020 by Cryolast

[Gunther]

5 hours ago, Comrade Boekhom said:

bRUH, you used a falcon in that close range against like, 2 d-bois it was gonna happen, also i enjoyed the yelling

That's cause my other weapons were empty and I didn't have time to reload em cause a new wave of D-Class was coming. Also cause I panicked cause I was dying pretty quickly. And you're welcome I guess.

[[GL] Mike]

On 4/26/2020 at 11:48 AM, BlueToxicTank said:

-SUPPORT

- The knives are well balanced and require skill to do full damage, and it is easy to prevent knives if you make sure you don't get stabbed in the back and you hit your shots.

- The knives also brings something fun to the server and a new meta, the only reason CI use them is because they are FUN. 

- The only reason there are large riots is because the knives are new meaning more people are going on D-class recently. 

 

 

 

[Comrade Boekhom]

4 hours ago, Gunther said:

That's cause my other weapons were empty and I didn't have time to reload em cause a new wave of D-Class was coming. Also cause I panicked cause I was dying pretty quickly. And you're welcome I guess.

I mean, you have a knife now, so enjoy it actually not being broken!

[NetworkParadox]

"But-But... all you need to do is move!"

This is assuming you CAN move, and move fast enough while outputting any sort of lethal damage from the lack luster guns given to Security and MTF. We're in an underground facility ladies and gentlemen, there isn't much space openly available. Sure you can get a few shots off, but again the guns MTF and Security have are lacklusted and not nearly enough to save themselves.



"But-But... This makes Class-D more balanced against Security!"

May I remind you, that Class-D are not heavily armed special forces. They are inmates in an orange jumpsuit in a maximum security clandestine prison. In no way shape or form should Class-D have a chance in fighting the Security or Special Forces of said prison through blunt force, Class-D are meant to escape mostly via intelligence.


"People won't like having the stats of a weapon they bought changed!"


Of course not. There is no silver bullet when it comes to gaming balance, there will always be upset people. The trick is to appeal to the majority so you can get more players to be satisfied. When people bought the Knives, most of them had no idea how powerful they would be. They could just assume it has the strength of a kitchen knife, but it doesn't. 




Overall, +Support.

[Propane]

12 minutes ago, NetworkParadox said:

"But-But... all you need to do is move!"

This is assuming you CAN move, and move fast enough while outputting any sort of lethal damage from the lack luster guns given to Security and MTF. We're in an underground facility ladies and gentlemen, there isn't much space openly available. Sure you can get a few shots off, but again the guns MTF and Security have are lacklusted and not nearly enough to save themselves.



"But-But... This makes Class-D more balanced against Security!"

May I remind you, that Class-D are not heavily armed special forces. They are inmates in an orange jumpsuit in a maximum security clandestine prison. In no way shape or form should Class-D have a chance in fighting the Security or Special Forces of said prison through blunt force, Class-D are meant to escape mostly via intelligence.


"People won't like having the stats of a weapon they bought changed!"


Of course not. There is no silver bullet when it comes to gaming balance, there will always be upset people. The trick is to appeal to the majority so you can get more players to be satisfied. When people bought the Knives, most of them had no idea how powerful they would be. They could just assume it has the strength of a kitchen knife, but it doesn't. 




Overall, +Support.

 

[Sinnik]

+Support

Watch this video carefully, the second time he knifes me, he's not even LOOKING AT ME, and he's like 10 feet away.
https://streamable.com/2m3aw2

Edited April 29, 2020 by Sinnik

[Comrade Boekhom]

1 hour ago, Sinnik said:

+Support

Watch this video carefully, the second time he knifes me, he's not even LOOKING AT ME, and he's like 10 feet away.
https://streamable.com/2m3aw2

as far as i know the hitreg is clientside

[Fool]

Ok so this has been causing lots of complaints and I see one way to balance this thing out making it neither OP or not usable

Make the knife a weapon really based on getting behind people and using stealth tactics with it, pretty much just make it a weapon that is kinda effective from the front but very efficient from behind. 

This would make the CS:GO knifes their own special weapon making MTF Stealth ops and CI Infil's have a better chance at quickly killing someone then disappearing from the battlefield. 

(It pretty much already does this I think it just needs a slight nerf)

Edited April 29, 2020 by Fool

[Matricies]

Hello Jack,

I'm gonna pitch my end here. It should be pretty obvious at this point that the knives have caused some sort of meta-shift. I see GENSEC/MTF and even CI using them against D-class and eachother instead of their guns at times just because of how strong they can be in the cramped corridors that is the foundation. I don't think these complaints are unfounded either because if its just 1 D class its not an issue, its when 5-10 individuals rush with the knives and pistols that it becomes a problem. I've seen experienced GENSEC/Heavily armed MTF backpedalling/dodging only to still die and some of these players are experienced, so how do you think the new OFC/LCPL who makes up the majority of GENSEC is going to do?

Damage for alt fire = 60, back stab = 110 (It is very easy to get behind someone trying to dodge/backpedal you, The only real counter is hallway camping)

We have made some changes to try and address the issue, primarily being increasing armor on the GENSEC jobs and some people are getting better at countering the knives but this is the same situation that occurs every time a new weapon comes out and I'd like to look alittle longer before putting any + or - supports here. The biggest issue as always with this, isn't just that GENSEC isn't able to defend D-block but that GENSEC isn't also able to defend the LCZ. When the LCZ is compromised, research and utility cannot do their jobs and if D block is compromised for hours, research cannot do anything and MTF has to come. This is exacerbated by the self-breaching as D-class are rarely available during mass riots that last an hour or 2 which almost always, results in unfair/un-counterable self-breaches that can set the facility into defcon 3/2 for 30+ minutes.

For now, I'm going to +/- support, as I'd like to see if we can do anything other then nerfing the knives. Nerfing them is always an last resort unless its overly oppressive to outright overpowered.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Matricies

[Retired DoTF Daedran]

+Support
Being as how MTF is also having issues in regards to the involved weaponry in question, I can support nerfing these weapons to a more reasonable degree, perhaps arms reach is more reasonable and realistic.

[a frog]

-support its fun to play and everyone can get it plus its the only way to deal with some classes that either have too much health or their hitbox is broken plus you know its a knife and if you have a gun above a pistol your fine if you just keep crouch jumping back and keep shooting