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X-MAS HAMMER REBUFF - Denied


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1 hour ago, Gunther said:

Actually it only does 80 with a full power swing, cause I checked combat logs one day to see how much I did. And Gensec get destroyed mostly because a lot of them don't pay attention to D-Class and end getting smacked at least once. 

 

Thanks Gunther, that is a great point. The enlisted are more than capable of killing hammer users if they just look forward. Most enlisted are very air headed in terms of combat gameplay and don’t pay attention to what’s in front of them, or move their heads to look at something funny that’s happening. It’s the lack of concentration that really does the weaker armored players in, as NCOs and up typically are able to kill those with the hammer since they are more attentive.

1 hour ago, starr said:

Just make it the same damage as the scythe, boom, same as the other collectable. This stupid arguement has been going nowhere for months.

One side needs to understand that they paid money for a limited time weapon

And the other side needs to realise that shit was OP at it's old state and needs a nerf.

I say this as from both sides, so for the love of god someone find a middle ground or just talk about what I just mentioned ^

Then we would have to increase the hammers speed as well, since we all know how fast the scythe swings. That’s why the scythe is better now, it swings hella fast.

Ret. Security Colonel || Ret. Head Warden || D-Class High Council || Former MTF Alpha 1 'Red Right Hand' Juliette 69             

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2 hours ago, starr said:

Just make it the same damage as the scythe, boom, same as the other collectable. This stupid arguement has been going nowhere for months.

One side needs to understand that they paid money for a limited time weapon

And the other side needs to realise that shit was OP at it's old state and needs a nerf.

I say this as from both sides, so for the love of god someone find a middle ground or just talk about what I just mentioned ^

The issue is with that is that the damage it had solidified its use as a weapon to deter and punish those who tried just using the “Jump crouch M1 Negev hA” for every gun fight and, in turn, made people actually have to do some thinking and basic strategy in order to counter the Hammer. It was like me with SCP-076-2 and getting so many kills as I did/ be breached for as long as I was where people tried what they would for normal PVP (Like crouch jump spam and just unloading a Negev) and would get killed almost instantly because of it, but once people learned how to fight the SCP, it became exponentially difficult to play as the SCP. While siting at really long ranges and spamming overpowered Auto-Rifles is equally annoying, it is at least different than watching the same fight play out over and over with 200/200 CCs having broken hitboxes and over powered as hell “Crutch Weapons” Like the Negev or Sawed Off. 

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2 hours ago, starr said:

Just make it the same damage as the scythe, boom, same as the other collectable. This stupid arguement has been going nowhere for months.

One side needs to understand that they paid money for a limited time weapon

And the other side needs to realise that shit was OP at it's old state and needs a nerf.

I say this as from both sides, so for the love of god someone find a middle ground or just talk about what I just mentioned ^

I’m gonna remove my original reply and leave this here.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Thomas The Thermonuclear Bomb said:

The issue is with that is that the damage it had solidified its use as a weapon to deter and punish those who tried just using the “Jump crouch M1 Negev hA” for every gun fight and, in turn, made people actually have to do some thinking and basic strategy in order to counter the Hammer. It was like me with SCP-076-2 and getting so many kills as I did/ be breached for as long as I was where people tried what they would for normal PVP (Like crouch jump spam and just unloading a Negev) and would get killed almost instantly because of it, but once people learned how to fight the SCP, it became exponentially difficult to play as the SCP. While siting at really long ranges and spamming overpowered Auto-Rifles is equally annoying, it is at least different than watching the same fight play out over and over with 200/200 CCs having broken hitboxes and over powered as hell “Crutch Weapons” Like the Negev or Sawed Off. 

Exactly. It was supposed to keep a high damage count, that was its intended purpose. You can’t bring the damage lower than the bat, because then that makes the hammer into an entirely desperate product, with its main utilization being taken away completely. Nobody is asking for a rebuff back to 150. But 100-120 would make perfect sense, and I think almost everyone would settle for a 100. That way it is a 2 hit for enlisted, not a one hit. Giving the enlisted officers, those most commonly killed by the hammer, a huge chance to win the fight. 

Ret. Security Colonel || Ret. Head Warden || D-Class High Council || Former MTF Alpha 1 'Red Right Hand' Juliette 69             

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12 hours ago, Gamer6 said:

-support 

You have more custom classes then almost any branch, and you dont need a OP hammer to kill 9-10 CI raiders when you have a site full of armed people

Also all the people who bought it knew it would be nerfed like the scythe. We all new this was going to happen. If it is to get rebuff I say up to like 120 m1 and 75 for m2

We knew it was going to gain but it does suck a bit +/-

Edited by Chief_

Head Admin SCP-RP || Event Team Overseer || Ethics Committee || Ex Security FTO 1LT || Ex Security Warden || Ex CI R&D Senior Agent || UMC Guest [LVL 0] || Former Research Researcher || Former DORSU || Former DOC || Former LCZ Manager ||  I aM sPeCiAl || 

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44 minutes ago, Chief_ said:

Also all the people who bought it knew it would be nerfed like the scythe. We all new this was going to happen. If it is to get rebuff I say up to like 120 m1 and 75 for m2

We knew it was going to gain but it does suck a bit +/-

That’s what I’m saying lol, 120 is a great place to keep it. An 80 damage nerf is just insane. 110-120 is what it should be. Thanks for agreeing on that.

Ret. Security Colonel || Ret. Head Warden || D-Class High Council || Former MTF Alpha 1 'Red Right Hand' Juliette 69             

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I’ve seen a few options listed in the comments. The minority say to keep it nerfed, the majority believed it should be rebuffed, but not to the same amount it was before. Specifically, here’s the most popular options I’ve seen.

•Make the hammer the same as the scythe (Interesting suggestion)

•Buff the hammer to 120, making it so officers can’t be one shotted anymore but still maintaining the Hammers above normal damage. (majority opinion) 

•Keep it Nerfed to 80 (The minority opinion)

Edited by A-Hawk :D

Ret. Security Colonel || Ret. Head Warden || D-Class High Council || Former MTF Alpha 1 'Red Right Hand' Juliette 69             

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14 hours ago, Thomas The Thermonuclear Bomb said:

+Support

 

When it came to using the Hammer, it would require a fair bit of skill besides just “hit left click and win” and, more often then not, I’d find using the hammer to be a well worse off option for fighting against something that just using normal weaponry. The main reason that the Hammer was considered “Overpowered” was not due to its statistics, but because of those who wielded it being capable of properly using the weapon. Even then, I’d find it hard to use the Hammer in even the best of situations like funneling down a tight corridor and fighting one to one. And with the new addition of Shades Task Force with the constant GS3 spam, the new CI CCs making a huge come back, and for $10 buying someone into a 250/250 PKM three slot Heavy class. The Hammer put some balance into countering the massive German styled Blitz Krieg that would wipe all who didnt happen to be high command in Nu7 or decently ranked in E11 or A1.

     Furthermore, while MTF might have a rather large amount of MTF CCs, a good amount of them cant even come close to compare to the CI Recon Force or the “Seeker” CC, with there being a fair amount of dead CCs -such as Omnicron, E11 Last Stand, Iota-10, Site Protector, Site Inspector, ect and ect- and with even fewer being able to bring in the equipment necessary to withstand the absolute raw DPS of Negevs, PKMs, GS3 spam, Shawed Off Spam, and even Awp and Flare Guns to an extent. The only ones that come to mind that have a decent chance at putting up any actual resistance is Rho-36 Occult Operative, Magma Defender to an extent, and Osprey-1 to an extent. 

 

Lastly, to expand a bit on the “Hammer not being as OP as you think,” I’d like to add that many times I have lost fights against people while using the Hammer due to the simple fact that they knew how best to counter the weapon or because it just simply was not anywhere good enough. I’ve had times when Gensec would wipe the floor with me, OFCs included, despite me going in a rush with my Hammer and other D class for support, including Reznovs and other D Class CCs. I have been destroyed plenty of times by skilled PVP players during CI raids with my Hammer doing little besides maybe a hit or two that simply couldnt output enough damage fast enough to kill off someone. I’ve even had a few times where I couldnt kill someone simply because they were able to outrun my 90% Mobility Speed. The Hammer isn’t an instant God Weapon that would smite those who happened to be close, but is just simply another situational weapon with its own Strengths - like high damage and good hit reg - and its own various downsides - 90% mobility, slow swing speed, useless at even medium ranges, situational, and sometimes just outright DPSed. 

 

TL;DR: The Hammer isnt as bad as people say, its just the people who used it were good enough to use it correctly.

 

Edit: gonna add more to this

In addition to what I posted above, I would like to add that, in its current state, the Bat can out Damage it and the Scythe can do the same damage almost twice as fast. Keep in mind that this was a 20/30$ dollar weapon that was exclusive to just the 2019 Christmas Holidays while the Bat is a permanently and non-time exclusive weapon. Furthermore, due to its state as of now, there is very little reason to use it even over something like the Hatchet or the Bat due to you becoming more of a target from those you attack when using the Hammer. This all accumulates to it being almost useless in comparison to the Scythe, Bat, and even the Hatchet with two out of the three being on the store permanently and even having sales on occasion. 

 

Founder of Aperture Science | Retired Head of Research | Retired Event Team Leader | Current Metal Head
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8 hours ago, starr said:

Just make it the same damage as the scythe, boom, same as the other collectable. This stupid arguement has been going nowhere for months.

One side needs to understand that they paid money for a limited time weapon

And the other side needs to realise that shit was OP at it's old state and needs a nerf.

I say this as from both sides, so for the love of god someone find a middle ground or just talk about what I just mentioned ^

Sounds like a decent solution, when did this become about CC's? I wonder if people are mad about their implementation and their treatment on the server.🤔 
Hopefully, again, this highlights a concurrent problem in the community that people need to start paying more attention to.

Edited by Gh0pit

Retired CMDR of Epsilon-11    D-Class Main/CI gang/RHO 36 Detective     

~You say stop it, I say Gh0pit~

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15 hours ago, Dr Dark But Not Very Dark said:

-Support

-100 Damage is enough to 2 shot

-It would destroy Gensec Really quickly leading to mass riots, Defcon 2 all day (meaning no research),

Overall We would have lots of people getting killed and Probably quitting.

 

 

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I see a lot of people talking about collectibles and how they “shouldn’t be op” one, that shouldn’t be absolute garbage either. Also, that problem involves the scythe as well and we are just discussing the hammer, which is now worse than the scythe by far and by major consensus. That’s why people want it buffed, so it can be utilized as a slow strong weapon. 120 damage, even 100 damage is a perfectly reasonable rebuff. For one, hammer users will no longer be able to kill security enlisted in one shot. Ill say it again, Enlisted would be able to survive being hit. Meaning hammer users would most likely die when not in 1 on 1 combat, since they would have to keep fighting the one that they hit rather than them just dropping dead after one blow. The vast majority of people so far are either “+” or “+/-“. Reason being because it just makes sense to do what’s been suggestion. It’s a sledgehammer, and the bat does 40 more damage. If the hammer would either be made as fast as the scythe, or brought up anywhere between 100-120, it seems that the community would prefer one of those two options.
 

Ret. Security Colonel || Ret. Head Warden || D-Class High Council || Former MTF Alpha 1 'Red Right Hand' Juliette 69             

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16 hours ago, Dr Dark But Not Very Dark said:

-Support

-100 Damage is enough to 2 shot

-It would destroy Gensec Really quickly leading to mass riots, Defcon 2 all day (meaning no research),

Overall We would have lots of people getting killed and Probably quitting.

 

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16 hours ago, Dr Dark But Not Very Dark said:

-Support

-100 Damage is enough to 2 shot

-It would destroy Gensec Really quickly leading to mass riots, Defcon 2 all day (meaning no research),

Overall We would have lots of people getting killed and Probably quitting.

Bro, I am so sick of people using this as their reason to -support. Literally it is so stupid. “Kills in two shots” yeah, so does the bat, so why aren’t you whining about it as well? Does more damage on full swing, and would be killing gensec just as easy as the hammer. As a matter of fact, it’s easier to use bat than hammer now.

A number of Security superiors have already disagreed with the whole entire activity thing, because the hammer was at 150 for three months and we have more NCOS then we ever had?? This reasoning is insanely flawed dude.

Ret. Security Colonel || Ret. Head Warden || D-Class High Council || Former MTF Alpha 1 'Red Right Hand' Juliette 69             

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18 hours ago, Thomas The Thermonuclear Bomb said:

+Support

 

When it came to using the Hammer, it would require a fair bit of skill besides just “hit left click and win” and, more often then not, I’d find using the hammer to be a well worse off option for fighting against something that just using normal weaponry. The main reason that the Hammer was considered “Overpowered” was not due to its statistics, but because of those who wielded it being capable of properly using the weapon. Even then, I’d find it hard to use the Hammer in even the best of situations like funneling down a tight corridor and fighting one to one. And with the new addition of Shades Task Force with the constant GS3 spam, the new CI CCs making a huge come back, and for $10 buying someone into a 250/250 PKM three slot Heavy class. The Hammer put some balance into countering the massive German styled Blitz Krieg that would wipe all who didnt happen to be high command in Nu7 or decently ranked in E11 or A1.

     Furthermore, while MTF might have a rather large amount of MTF CCs, a good amount of them cant even come close to compare to the CI Recon Force or the “Seeker” CC, with there being a fair amount of dead CCs -such as Omnicron, E11 Last Stand, Iota-10, Site Protector, Site Inspector, ect and ect- and with even fewer being able to bring in the equipment necessary to withstand the absolute raw DPS of Negevs, PKMs, GS3 spam, Shawed Off Spam, and even Awp and Flare Guns to an extent. The only ones that come to mind that have a decent chance at putting up any actual resistance is Rho-36 Occult Operative, Magma Defender to an extent, and Osprey-1 to an extent. 

 

Lastly, to expand a bit on the “Hammer not being as OP as you think,” I’d like to add that many times I have lost fights against people while using the Hammer due to the simple fact that they knew how best to counter the weapon or because it just simply was not anywhere good enough. I’ve had times when Gensec would wipe the floor with me, OFCs included, despite me going in a rush with my Hammer and other D class for support, including Reznovs and other D Class CCs. I have been destroyed plenty of times by skilled PVP players during CI raids with my Hammer doing little besides maybe a hit or two that simply couldnt output enough damage fast enough to kill off someone. I’ve even had a few times where I couldnt kill someone simply because they were able to outrun my 90% Mobility Speed. The Hammer isn’t an instant God Weapon that would smite those who happened to be close, but is just simply another situational weapon with its own Strengths - like high damage and good hit reg - and its own various downsides - 90% mobility, slow swing speed, useless at even medium ranges, situational, and sometimes just outright DPSed. 

 

TL;DR: The Hammer isnt as bad as people say, its just the people who used it were good enough to use it correctly.

 

Edit: gonna add more to this

In addition to what I posted above, I would like to add that, in its current state, the Bat can out Damage it and the Scythe can do the same damage almost twice as fast. Keep in mind that this was a 20/30$ dollar weapon that was exclusive to just the 2019 Christmas Holidays while the Bat is a permanently and non-time exclusive weapon. Furthermore, due to its state as of now, there is very little reason to use it even over something like the Hatchet or the Bat due to you becoming more of a target from those you attack when using the Hammer. This all accumulates to it being almost useless in comparison to the Scythe, Bat, and even the Hatchet with two out of the three being on the store permanently and even having sales on occasion. 

 

 Retired CI LTCMDR | Proud Enuzer | Roblox Pro

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STATUS UPDATE

We have 16 +/- and + supports. 
Those numbers vastly outmatch those wishing to keep it nerfed at 80. So what is evident is either way, people WANT THE HAMMER TO BE BETTER. In some way shape or form. The most common solutions we’ve seen are making it identical to the Scythe in speed and damage, and Giving it Damage 100-120. The damage to 100 buff only has a bit more support than the Scythe copy though. Once again, proof that people want the hammer to be better than it is now after the nerf.

Ret. Security Colonel || Ret. Head Warden || D-Class High Council || Former MTF Alpha 1 'Red Right Hand' Juliette 69             

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2 minutes ago, A-Hawk 😄 said:

STATUS UPDATE

We have 16 +/- and + supports. 
Those numbers vastly outmatch those wishing to keep it nerfed at 80. So what is evident is either way, people WANT THE HAMMER TO BE BETTER. In some way shape or form. The most common solutions we’ve seen are making it identical to the Scythe in speed and damage, and Giving it Damage 100-120. The damage to 100 buff only has a bit more support than the Scythe copy though. Once again, proof that people want the hammer to be better than it is now after the nerf.

SMT will read over them all we dont need a status update every few hours

"A good soldier obeys without question. A good officer commands without doubt."

 

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18 hours ago, Thomas The Thermonuclear Bomb said:

Furthermore, while MTF might have a rather large amount of MTF CCs, a good amount of them cant even come close to compare to the CI Recon Force or the “Seeker” CC, with there being a fair amount of dead CCs -such as Omnicron, E11 Last Stand, Iota-10, Site Protector, Site Inspector, ect and ect- and with even fewer being able to bring in the equipment necessary to withstand the absolute raw DPS of Negevs, PKMs, GS3 spam, Shawed Off Spam, and even Awp and Flare Guns to an extent. The only ones that come to mind that have a decent chance at putting up any actual resistance is Rho-36 Occult Operative, Magma Defender to an extent, and Osprey-1 to an extent. 

i mean, we have 5 active CCs, and 7 CCs in total, but you all have a lot of CCs that are active as well, and the people that play on them are pretty good as well, so i dont really see the issue when 2-3 CCs become active.

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Rangiatea said:

SMT will read over them all we dont need a status update every few hours

My bad lol. This is my first post in any gaming forum so I’m still not all exactly sure on how this kind of things operates lol. I’m still working on it.

Ret. Security Colonel || Ret. Head Warden || D-Class High Council || Former MTF Alpha 1 'Red Right Hand' Juliette 69             

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