D class riots

[Rangiatea]

Please make sure suggestions are pertinent and relevant! 

What you want to see? -  D class riots being limited on how long they can last for, im not exactly sure on a time i think somewhere between 10-20 minutes each hour is fair 

Why should we add it? - on the 22/4 (my time) we had a D block riot that lasted most of the day and because of this a lot of GENSEC and felt like we were not playing an RP server but more of a TDM server, and this also stopped researchers from RPing as they couldn't get D class for tests. I don't believe riots should be removed but instead limited to how long they can last for (a riot being 5 or more D class) because if you join a new RP server and want to join GENSEC you will just be sat playing TDM or if you want to join Research you will be sat with nothing to do while the riots are going on 

What are the advantages of having this? - this will lower the amount of time the riots last giving GENSEC a break from TDM and allowing research to do their jobs 

Who is it mainly for? - Security and research 

Links to any content -  N/A

 

[Knuckles]

While I see this is very relevant I see difficulty for the exact same reason D class don't have NLR. That is to say how would it be enforced? If this was added (similar to D class NLR) staff would have their hands full all the time with nothing but calls about D class riots. 

[Berserkrpups]

To add on how would people know when they can and cannot riot if they just joined in.

[Catsro]

-/+ Support 

Something does need to be done with the riots, but I don't think this is the best solution. Some say that lockdowns are a semi-solution to the riots. That removes the ability for researchers to research with d class. Riot timers would be interesting but hard to implement with newer players. Since they don't have a sense of the server at first. Next question is do the people get punished for rioting before or after the riot timer?

[Infected]

+Support 

Constant rioting of ClassD lead to lack of RP and many people can’t stand it, neither can I.

[Dr. Ternith Plague]

+ Support

Riots are mostly event stuff or when D-Class decide to get rowdy. Just add a rule where D-Class advert riot, riot for 10-15 minutes, and have to advert over. It can be defined as 5+ D-Class conspiring to escape the site or kill Foundation Personnel.

If the riot leader leaves or escapes, or the time is reached, THEY MUST ADVERT 'RIOT OVER'.

[Phil]

12 hours ago, Dr. Ternith Plague said:

+ Support

Riots are mostly event stuff or when D-Class decide to get rowdy. Just add a rule where D-Class advert riot, riot for 10-15 minutes, and have to advert over. It can be defined as 5+ D-Class conspiring to escape the site or kill Foundation Personnel.

If the riot leader leaves or escapes, or the time is reached, THEY MUST ADVERT 'RIOT OVER'.

Like that idea ^^

[Lefty]

On ‎4‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 10:10 AM, Weareinfected said:

+Support 

Constant rioting of ClassD lead to lack of RP and many people can’t stand it, neither can I.

 

[[icOnic] BonkBoeink]

-Support

I honestly think that this is a terrible idea and would cause a lot of chaos of hate on this server. Even though how much gensec hate riots. It shouldn't get nerfed like that. Think of it this way: At least 75 - 80% of the server is class D's. Any they mainly riot for fun. if you make it like this, there will be a lot of minges and people getting angry because of it. And if we look at it at a worse way, it might kill the server. As much as gensec don't like riots, it's still a bad suggestion. As it could kill the server. Also the solution is just train more gensec. the more numbers the better.

[Matricies]

7 hours ago, [icOnic] BonkBoeink said:

Also the solution is just train more gensec. the more numbers the better.

Hello Bonk,

I feel like this post doesn't exactly understand how many people come through general security. We are the primary branch that people join on the server aside from research. The majority of our recruits have less then 1hr of playtime, meaning they come directly from D class right onto the security job to play. As the current OFTO (Overseer of Training) and prior HDFTO (Head Field training officer), I would see tons of recruits come throughout the day but training more people doesn't ensure they stay. Even with top trainers who make sure recruits are disciplined and ready to join general security, that does not offset that fact that some of those people do not stay (Whether voluntarily or via removal due to mingy behavior), there can be as many as 3x-4x the amount of security at any given time and that security has NLR timers results in a situation that having more numbers does not always mean better. It means better for D class unfortunately, because of the sheer numbers, no need for training, no NLR and no standards needed to follow aside from server rules.

We want to be able to spend time to make sure our people are improving and growing in our branches but because D class have no NLR and often times riot for hours on end, there is barely any time for proper RP. While D class do make up a big portion of our base, the rest is made up of people who make the "ROLEPLAY HAPPEN". Its not fun for the numerous branches who have to deal with this when we get rushed by 20+ D class every 5 minutes. Its not fun for the D class who actually want to be tested on (Which numbers quite a few, they just end up riotting because 3-4 D class killing 4-5 security results in them taking an opportunity).  Its definitely not fun for the security who sit there and play RDM the game and the researchers who can't get their D class because we have to lockdown D block every 30 or so minutes to get D class to calm down. D class get away with way too much like having No NLR, having guns for D class, no riotting timers, guns being nerfed to 40% of their damage allows D class to run up and melee attack instead of just being gunned down instantly which is really dumb and its time for it to end.

I can barely send patrols out half the time or give researchers escorts or even do training practices with my troops because of this nonsense.  We usually don't have more then 15 security on and even then theres usually 30+ D class causing nonstop issues, especially due to the NLR rules.

I fully +support adding riotting rules or some way of controlling this better because D class are way stronger then they think they are half the time due to sheer numbers and the advantages they are given alone.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Matricies

[[icOnic] BonkBoeink]

Just now, Matricies said:

Hello Bonk,

I feel like this post doesn't exactly understand how many people come through general security. We are the primary branch that people join on the server aside from research. The majority of our recruits have less then 1hr of playtime, meaning they come directly from D class right onto the security job to play. As the current OFTO (Overseer of Training) and prior HDFTO (Head Field training officer), I would see tons of recruits come throughout the day but training more people doesn't ensure they stay. Even with top trainers who make sure recruits are disciplined and ready to join general security, that does not offset that fact that some of those people do not stay (Whether voluntarily or via removal due to mingy behavior), there can be as many as 3x-4x the amount of security at any given time and that security has NLR timers results in a situation that having more numbers does not always mean better. It means better for D class unfortunately, because of the sheer numbers, no need for training, no NLR and no standards needed to follow aside from server rules.

We want to be able to spend time to make sure our people are improving and growing in our branches but because D class have no NLR and often times riot for hours on end, there is barely any time for proper RP. While D class do make up a big portion of our base, the rest is made up of people who make the "ROLEPLAY HAPPEN". Its not fun for the numerous branches who have to deal with this when we get rushed by 20+ D class every 5 minutes. Its not fun for the D class who actually want to be tested on (Which numbers quite a few, they just end up riotting because 3-4 D class killing 4-5 security results in them taking an opportunity).  Its definitely not fun for the security who sit there and play RDM the game and the researchers who can't get their D class because we have to lockdown D block every 30 or so minutes to get D class to calm down. D class get away with way too much like having No NLR, having guns for D class, no riotting timers, guns being nerfed to 40% of their damage allows D class to run up and melee attack instead of just being gunned down instantly which is really dumb and its time for it to end.

I can barelysend patrols out half the time or give researchers escorts or even do training practices with my troops because of this nonsense if we don't have 15+ security on and even then theres usually 30+ D class causing nonstop issues, especially due to the NLR nonsense.

I fully +support adding riotting rules or some way of controlling this better because D class are way stronger then they think they are half the time due to sheer numbers and the advantages they are given alone.

I respect your opinion. But i was kind of talking server wise, and how it would impact the server. a lot of people play d boi. and if you make rules like that. The server can go down hill. As much as i would like it. It just would impact the server too much in a Negative way. Also i get i didn't use better words. There is no really solution other then.... well.... nothing really. Like, if you would add d class nlr, instead of being 90 - 100 players on average. It would probably drop down to around 50 - 70. Or even worse. 40 - 50. I mean 85% of the server is class d's. I like this server i don't want it to end but, if this gets added. This server will go downhill. 

[Berserkrpups]

On 4/24/2019 at 2:37 PM, Dr. Ternith Plague said:

+ Support

Riots are mostly event stuff or when D-Class decide to get rowdy. Just add a rule where D-Class advert riot, riot for 10-15 minutes, and have to advert over. It can be defined as 5+ D-Class conspiring to escape the site or kill Foundation Personnel.

If the riot leader leaves or escapes, or the time is reached, THEY MUST ADVERT 'RIOT OVER'.

 

[Rangiatea]

10 hours ago, [icOnic] BonkBoeink said:

I respect your opinion. But i was kind of talking server wise, and how it would impact the server. a lot of people play d boi. and if you make rules like that. The server can go down hill. As much as i would like it. It just would impact the server too much in a Negative way. Also i get i didn't use better words. There is no really solution other then.... well.... nothing really. Like, if you would add d class nlr, instead of being 90 - 100 players on average. It would probably drop down to around 50 - 70. Or even worse. 40 - 50. I mean 85% of the server is class d's. I like this server i don't want it to end but, if this gets added. This server will go downhill. 

but I've seen players who play on security leave because of these riots lasting so long, when they start to last 1 hour or longer it's not RP anymore it just becomes TDM and only the d class like this which causes security to leave the server to find another RP server. nearing a week ago we had a near 24-hour riot, that's not RP for anyone 

 

we are not saying add in NLR but we need something as over the past week it has gotten really bad before then it wasn't a problem and before then we actually had MORE people playing overall we could nearly hit our cap most days. 

[[icOnic] BonkBoeink]

4 minutes ago, Rangiatea said:

but I've seen players who play on security leave because of these riots lasting so long, when they start to last 1 hour or longer it's not RP anymore it just becomes TDM and only the d class like this which causes security to leave the server to find another RP server. nearing a week ago we had a near 24-hour riot, that's not RP for anyone 

 

we are not saying add in NLR but we need something as over the past week it has gotten really bad before then it wasn't a problem and before then we actually had MORE people playing overall we could nearly hit our cap most days. 

Actually that's good. I have an Idea though. lets say d classes are only allowed to riot 5 times an hour. That's what i would call an "Successful Riot" A "Successful Riot" is where the rioters get all the way past HCZ CP. Once they get past the Check point. That's One Successful Riot. So if they get to HCZ 5 times. All of their Successful riots are up. Failed riots are where they do not get to HCZ. They do not count as a riot. So they can keep on trying. However once they get in HCZ 5 times. That's where they have an Hour Cooldown Until they can riot again. That's my idea. It's overall balanced and Basically makes it fun.

[Hannah]

-support i may be new   but d-block are really limited to what they can do  when i joined what every one told me the most fun on dblock is rioting and escaping  maybe add some stuff to the outside  for d-blocks     

[steppy]

I have originally started playing as security to RP. Protect & escort researchers, guard the facility & D-Block. And by guard D-Block, I don't mean play a never-ending tdm against D-Class that can craft weapons stronger than half of the security and also have wrenches with which they can kill us easily + that they spawn with. And with them, they non-stop riot until D-Block falls apart due to gensec waiting NLR. If D-Class all come together and riot together with aks, deagles, or wrenches gensec can hold it off once then twice maybe the third time but then we eventually die and wait NLR and during that time D-Class escape right into the HCZ. I've also noticed that recently there's less gensec on and more D-Class constantly rioting and breaking thru them.

I feel like there need to be some sorta riot rules so both Gensec and the Researchers can RP properly.

+Support

 

[Rookieblue]

+ Support

Ever since weapons were broadly introduced into D-Class it has significantly increased the number of riots and difficulty of holding D-Block from GENSEC. That isn't necessarily a completely bad thing, as it did make D-Class a more long term viable option to continue playing. However, I've been on staff for a few four-hour shifts and have had riots last either the entire time or the majority of the time. This frustrates everyone all around because GENSEC wants to be able to roleplay and play normally but are forced to continue defending D-Block, while D-Class are frustrated they are stuck in their little area and want to strike out at GENSEC.

Adding in some form of formal rules that are enforceable will hopefully balance these aspects.

[Phil]

I've quoted someone before but im gonna add onto it

Something really needs to be done while I do see the fun in rioting and trying to escape as a D class what isn't fun for GenSec and Researchers and the like is when there is a riot lasting an entire day making rp non existent for the departments in LCZ and then any SCP since D class rioting means a lock down or a change in defcon where researchers cant take a D class to test on with a SCP not only do you have GenSec complaining about lack of RP and hating the constant rioting you'll have Researchers and SCPs complaining since they can't rp their roles/get to do something other than wait till D class/CI breaks them out

 

Also to counter the whole "oh but GenSec have guns so they should be able to take care of the riots" GenSec also have NLR timers which for the most part they obey and then some meanwhile D class is just a never ending wave upon wave of people chipping away at GenSec and as stated before it's basically TDM when there's a riot and usually lasts for hours on end.

[Igneous]

I agree on cutting down on D-Class riots, but I have yet to see a solution on here that would be effective.

[Phil]

how about:

In order to call for a Riot, you must be D Class Expert(or D Class Pro) and need to have 3 others(of any D class class) with you to be able to call for a Riot once called everyone else may join in.

Riots may only Last 10mins and have a cooldown of 20mins after Riot timer has completed, Riot leader must Advert Riot to start it off with the other 3 adverting assists and must advert riot over once 10mins over, staff on duty/off duty may be able to keep an eye on the times between riots, failure to comply with it results in punishment up to staff members discretion

Edited April 30, 2019 by [GL] Phill

[Carpenter John]

1 hour ago, [GL] Phill said:

how about:

In order to call for a Riot, you must be D Class Expert(or D Class Pro) and need to have 3 others(of any D class class) with you to be able to call for a Riot once called everyone else may join in.

Riots may only Last 10mins and have a cooldown of 20mins after Riot timer has completed, Riot leader must Advert Riot to start it off with the other 3 adverting assists and must advert riot over once 10mins over, staff on duty/off duty may be able to keep an eye on the times between riots, failure to comply with it results in punishment up to staff members discretion

This is a good idea.

[AlexMSD]

I agree fully, the riots are the reason I didn't want to stick with GenSec. Too many times I would die because D Class would non-stop rush the lines and it was never fun. Hence why I joined NTF or any one of the MTFs in general. They only get to see action when it actually matters (Breaches, CI Raids, DEFCON 1 Evac).

1 hour ago, [GL] Phill said:

how about:

In order to call for a Riot, you must be D Class Expert(or D Class Pro) and need to have 3 others(of any D class class) with you to be able to call for a Riot once called everyone else may join in.

Riots may only Last 10mins and have a cooldown of 20mins after Riot timer has completed, Riot leader must Advert Riot to start it off with the other 3 adverting assists and must advert riot over once 10mins over, staff on duty/off duty may be able to keep an eye on the times between riots, failure to comply with it results in punishment up to staff members discretion

+1

[Rookieblue]

Keep in mind that there is no hierarchy for D-Class personnel. No chain of command or anything. This means that having them follow complicated rules such as riot timers, adverting riots, and such is going to be extremely difficult from both an enforcement standpoint for staff that are stretched taking other calls, as well as for other personnel having to respond to the riots.

I'm not trying to shoot down ideas without presenting one of my own (because I don't have one atm), but I also want to highlight the differences between D-Class and other branches that have a more defined command structure that can enforce stuff like NLR, timers, and such.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Rookieblue

[Knuckles]

17 hours ago, [GL] Phill said:

how about:

In order to call for a Riot, you must be D Class Expert(or D Class Pro) and need to have 3 others(of any D class class) with you to be able to call for a Riot once called everyone else may join in.

Riots may only Last 10mins and have a cooldown of 20mins after Riot timer has completed, Riot leader must Advert Riot to start it off with the other 3 adverting assists and must advert riot over once 10mins over, staff on duty/off duty may be able to keep an eye on the times between riots, failure to comply with it results in punishment up to staff members discretion

All this would do is create a giant paywall. Expert and Pro are both donor classes. Not to mention the fact that there is no hierarchy for D class besides the "gangs" some of them form. D class are literally convicted felons the Foundation appropriated for experimentation. I am also going to reiterate my point: Unless you want to have all the on duty staff stalking D block and doing nothing else how do you plan to enforce this?

[Phil]

20 minutes ago, Knuckles said:

All this would do is create a giant paywall. Expert and Pro are both donor classes

As stated its a suggestion they don't have to be those certain jobs but considering both have Expert or Pro you'd think they have a bit more brains than the average D class(rp wise) and have keypad crackers making them seem more of a leader for a riot than your average D class

 

23 minutes ago, Knuckles said:

Unless you want to have all the on duty staff stalking D block and doing nothing else how do you plan to enforce this?

So staff go about enforcing the rules? Whenever I'm on staff I barely if ever leave D block because of GenSec complaining about constant rioting that last for hours on end, RDM calls with D class killing other D class, Researchers complaining they can't RP, D class calling sits for RDM because a lock down has been in place ETC ETC.

It's not hard to control what goes on ingame specially if you had out punishments that fit the situation. RP in LCZ needs to continue instead the hours on end rioting that GenSec leave the server because of it, atleast in this way it's something Staff can control.